I don't believe in any gods or higher powers, what do i do?

The 12 Steps are the AA program of recovery from alcoholism.

Postby Layne » Sun Nov 30, 2008 3:49 pm

Well that is all I have been talking about. The solution to addiction from alcohol is total abstinence.


How do you maintain total abstinence?
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Postby Blue Moon » Sun Nov 30, 2008 4:10 pm

GantR wrote:When I was arrested and given a DWI in 1962 if was not because I was being selfish or self-centered. It was because I was so drunk I could hardly walk.


You seem to be suffering from the delusion that alcoholism is all to do with drinking.

You got a DUI because you were drunk. So don't drink, and you won't get a DUI. Lots of non-alcoholics get drunk and get DUIs. Lots of alcoholics don't drink yet still suffer from untreated alcoholism.

Well that is all I have been talking about. The solution to addiction from alcohol is total abstinence.


Nonsense. That's the solution for getting drunk. In and of itself, it is NOT the solution to alcohol addiction.
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Postby Jim 725 » Sun Nov 30, 2008 5:35 pm

92% of all alcoholics who come to AA or are sent by the courts to AA for treatment go back out within the first year. AA is not for everyone. That was a saying a long time ago.

Do you have any documentation or is this something you made up? I'm guessing the latter.
This question has been asked before but you avoid answering it. If the AA program is all wrong , exactly what are you doing in AA? Does stirring up this stuff give you a feeling of superiority over the poor alcoholics who don't have your magnificent will power? You might impress a few who don't know the difference between an actual alcoholic and a problem drinker, but most here know you for what you are. A smug, self satisfied fake.
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Postby GantR » Sun Nov 30, 2008 6:36 pm

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Postby GantR » Sun Nov 30, 2008 6:48 pm

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Postby avaneesh912 » Sun Nov 30, 2008 7:00 pm

On decision, not to drink!!!

I made a decision not to drink alcohol. But few months later I re-negotiated that I will only drink Beer. And stuck to beer on Fridays only for sometime. Full-time when on vacation. Then the progression of the disease kicked in and was drinking beer on all days. First started just the evenings strictly after work. Then during the day too.......

AA was founded for the real-alcoholic. You are probably don't fit that category.

GantR:

Interesting you are talking about Eckhart Tolle! He does talk about BEING in power of now. So you are just an Agnostic after all. You are in denial all this time.
Show him, from your own experience, how the peculiar mental condition surrounding that first drink prevents normal functioning of the will power (Alcoholics Anonymous, Page 92)
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Postby martin08 » Sun Nov 30, 2008 7:14 pm

I love to read, too, GantR.

But as I have accepted the principles of the Twelve Steps, I have found that most of my spare time is filled with helping others to find their own Spiritual solution to alcoholism and living. It is the most gratifying aspect of my life today - to watch those who could not find a solution and failed miserably on self knowledge, find a fruitful and productive life through their own conception of God.

I need no further authentication of this miraculous reality. People who were dead are now alive. No book could be even close to the fulfillment for my needs of seeing God's work done right here on Earth.

And so I will continue with His blessing for as long as His Grace be granted.
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Postby avaneesh912 » Sun Nov 30, 2008 7:15 pm

And wanted to add in the Chapter to We Agnostics it states that we could find the GREAT REALITY within us.

We finally saw that faith in some kind of God was a part of our make-up, just as much as the feeling we have for a friend. Sometimes we had to search fearlessly, but He was there. He was as much a fact as we were. We found the Great Reality deep down within us. In the last analysis it is only there that He may be found. It was so with us.
Show him, from your own experience, how the peculiar mental condition surrounding that first drink prevents normal functioning of the will power (Alcoholics Anonymous, Page 92)
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Postby GantR » Sun Nov 30, 2008 7:27 pm

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Postby GantR » Sun Nov 30, 2008 7:42 pm

Martino8;
You have a very touching story.

However;
If God as you understand him is “All Good’ then He would want to get rid of the illness of alcoholism.

If God as you understand him is “All Knowing" He would know that He should stop this evil.

If God as you understand him is “All Powerful” He is capable of eliminating alcoholism,

Then why in the hell does he continue to allow alcoholism to exist?


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Postby Layne » Sun Nov 30, 2008 9:52 pm

What in the hell is the difference If you say “I Came to believe that a power greater than my self could restore me to sanity”

Or if I say “ I will never drink again; I will never change my mind”.

If we both don’t drink, then we both don't drink.


I don't know what the difference is, I only asked how you maintain total abstinence.

If God as you understand him is “All Powerful” He is capable of eliminating alcoholism,

Then why in the hell does he continue to allow alcoholism to exist?


I can't begin to answer for God, especially since I don't subscribe to the general definition of God, but I would venture that the reason would be that we should have the gift of free will. Also if everything were utopia, then we would never really know joy, elation, serenity, etc., because we would not have opposites to create a bar by which to judge those feelings with.
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Postby GantR » Sun Nov 30, 2008 10:34 pm

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Postby avaneesh912 » Mon Dec 01, 2008 6:41 am

I will say this much. In 1962 I was seriously addicted to alcohol and I went to AA.

I stayed sober and because they did not make me a birthday cake after I had been sober a year I went out and got drunk.

I lost my job and nearly lost my wife and 2 children. I stayed drunk off and on for the nest 8 years.

I found a job in Michigan and moved my family there. On Feb 22, 1970 I went to my first AA meeting in Michigan. On that day I made a decision that I will never drink again, I will never change my mind.



This almost sounds like the Hard Drinker as illustrated by the Big Book.

===============================================
He may have the habit badly enough to gradually impair him physically and mentally. It may cause him to die a few years before his time. If a sufficiently strong reason ill health, falling in love, change of environment, or the warning of a doctor becomes operative, this man can also stop or moderate, although he may find it difficult and troublesome and may even need medical attention.
===============================================

The fear of losing your loved ones, you decided to quit and stayed quit.

Probably the hospital you went to, for detoxification, diagnosed you as an alcoholic and sent you to AA. And the practice of qualifying a new comer somehow got lost and they let you in.

And poor you, spent quite a bit of time in AA when you can spent more time with your family. At-least now you can spend your retirement life peacefully with your family instead of being of hindrance to people who are really looking for a solution.
Show him, from your own experience, how the peculiar mental condition surrounding that first drink prevents normal functioning of the will power (Alcoholics Anonymous, Page 92)
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Postby Blue Moon » Mon Dec 01, 2008 7:13 am

GantR wrote:If God as you understand him is “All Good’ then He would want to get rid of the illness of alcoholism.

If God as you understand him is “All Knowing" He would know that He should stop this evil.

If God as you understand him is “All Powerful” He is capable of eliminating alcoholism,

Then why in the hell does he continue to allow alcoholism to exist?


I think your debate should be with your conception of God. Perhaps God as you understand Him isn't answering your questions, so you're coming here in frustration to ask them of a bunch of drunks?

But these are questions that you must square away with your conception of God. Those who do not share your conception of God cannot answer the question, not because they don't want to, but because the God of your understanding is not one of theirs.

To me, the questions make no sense because I refuse to believe in the conception of God that you portray. If such a God exists, then we are no more than lab rats. If that be the case, there's one fundamental question that cannot be answered: why do we have free will?

Personally, I'm convinced that alcoholism is a man-made condition. To drink alcoholically is unnatural, but we do it to avoid emotional pain. Drinking alcohol is the easy way out but, like a butterfly being helped out of its cocoon, through trying to make things easier we actually end up crippled.

AA offers a spiritual solution to this self-imposed crisis.

What I find somewhat sad is that someone can go for 10,000 meetings yet apparently not once hear the problem defined.

I recommend less time in meetings, and more time spent reading "Doctor's opinion" and chapters 2 and 3 in the book "Alcoholics Anonymous".
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Postby GantR » Mon Dec 01, 2008 7:27 am

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