Steps 2 and 3

The 12 Steps are the AA program of recovery from alcoholism.

Steps 2 and 3

Postby Dan2000 » Fri May 19, 2017 6:22 am

Hi All

STEPS 2 and 3

Step 2 Came to believe that a power greater than myself, could restore us to sanity.

I had a hard time believing in God, even though this step, doesn't say God or religion, that's how I reacted to it.
I was brought up in a devote catholic family, I had to go to church on Sunday's and went to Sunday school as well, for many years.
However I think, when I was suppose to be learning all this stuff, I was looking out the window, daydreaming and such.
So I just had a hard time believing in something that I couldn't see or touch, I needed something more tangible.
The only time I ever prayed, prior to coming to AA, was when I was in some kind of trouble or if I was going to have surgery and stuff like that.

For me, the disease of alcoholism went like this.
Every morning I'd wake up to go to work and say to myself, I need to take a break from drinking today, my body needs a rest, I usually had the dry heaves and the shakes until lunch time. After lunch, when I had something in my stomach, and my body would start feeling a little better. My mind would start thinking of drinking. (this is the mental obsession) Then 2 o'clock would come around and my mind would start telling itself, that I should go down the bar to say hello to the guys and just have 2 beers, then go home. When I got out of work, around 3:30, I would go straight to the bar, as soon as I picked up that first drink, (the physical compulsion) kicked in and I stayed at the bar until I was drunk.
I was "powerless over alcohol" it called the shots, it said what I did from day to day, my whole life revolved around alcohol, not the other way around.
Every day, was a repeat, drink, drink, drink, for many years.
I was not able to stay sober, even for one day on my own.

Then when I started to come to AA, I was staying sober and I know it wasn't me that was keeping me sober.
This is when I came to believe that a power greater than myself was working in my life. It's as simple as that.

What you choose to be your Higher Power can be one of many examples, it does not need be religious, although it can be, if YOU wish. Your higher power could be, AA in general, a group of drunks, the God of your understanding, etc..

You just need to believe that there is a power (other than yourself) working in your life. I was a daily drunk, the disease of alcoholism called the shots, it controlled me, I could never control it.
Now I was sober, why wouldn't I believe that there was a higher power working in my life? This fact was plain to see.



Step 3 Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood him.

Our "wills"...... equal....... our thoughts

Our "lives"...... equal........ our actions

So we turn over, our thinking and our actions to the care of God, as we understand him.

We knew in Step 2 that there was a higher power working in our lives, that was keeping us sober...not our wills...my willpower never, ever worked.

Remember in Step 1, we admitted to some problems (I am the problem) (On page 64 in the big book it says, our liquor was but a symptom of our disease)

In Step 2, we found a solution (a higher power) and this was the solution because our "wills" did not work, in our "lives".

So now in Step 3 we are going to try something new, (Gods will) and we know his will works because we are sober today and because of this, it can be the basis of this very important decision.

Remember it is only a decision, We cannot act on this decision, until we do some of the other steps. We need to find out, what's been blocking us from God.

Steps 4 thru 10 are the action steps, by doing these steps they will reveal to us, what's been blocking us from God.

A.A. is a spiritual program, it is not a religious program, there is a difference.

The miracle happens when we get sober. The magic happens, when we apply the principles (steps) to all our affairs.

NOTE: The 12 Steps need to be done in sequence, because in Step 1 (the problem) had to be taken so we can do Step 2 (the solution) because we couldn't see the solution until we understood the problem, then in Step 3 we made a decision.

Dan2000
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Re: Steps 2 and 3

Postby avaneesh912 » Fri May 19, 2017 7:04 am

yeah, enormous amount of time is spent figuring out this God stuff. good topic. we experience the power by cleaning up. thats why bill w has this statement after "there is a solution":

There is a solution. Almost none of us liked the self- searching, the leveling of our pride, the confession of shortcomings which the process requires for its successful consummation.
Show him, from your own experience, how the peculiar mental condition surrounding that first drink prevents normal functioning of the will power (Alcoholics Anonymous, Page 92)
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Re: Steps 2 and 3

Postby Brock » Fri May 19, 2017 8:19 am

Excellent points there by Dan, thanks for posting it, first class explanation of 2 & 3.

I was surprised when I came into the program, at how many of us had our concept of God cockeyed thanks to organized religion, I also grew up force fed on the Catholic church, and the same thing happened to me.

There are a few priests of that church who seem keen on turning this around. Fr. Richard Rohr who I speak of here often, once worked at a church where AA meetings were held. After being invited to meetings, he says whatever was happening in those rooms felt a lot more like what church should be, or words to that effect. It can be found around the 13min mark on his you tube video, 'Breathing Underwater' (spirituality and the 12 steps). In some areas I suppose meetings may have this spirituality, unfortunately in mine they do not, and you get cross eyed looks if you talk 'too much' spirituality.

I think all religions are seeing the truth we in AA have found, that only when we admit absolute powerlessness, and then turn to a power greater than ourselves, can we have the sort of spiritual experience required for a life of relative serenity, some of the spiritual writings refer to this as dying before we physically die.
"Good morning, this is your Higher Power speaking. I will not be needing your help today."
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Re: Steps 2 and 3

Postby positrac » Fri May 19, 2017 8:33 am

Sure brought back a lot of memories I haven't had in a long long time and it is good to reflect my last drunk as a reminder of my capabilities when drinking.
Work hard, stay positive, and get up early. It's the best part of the day.
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Re: Steps 2 and 3

Postby ezdzit247 » Sat May 20, 2017 1:33 pm

Excellant post, Dan!

Thanks....... =biggrin
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Re: Steps 2 and 3

Postby kdub720 » Tue May 30, 2017 11:02 am

Geez. This is such a powerful topic in my life. The Higher Power and not giving up, but trusting. In every part of life I have had to learn to trust the higher power. Drinking is a big one, but every other struggle in life as well even with the little things like traffic or lines. Embrace it for what it is. Great one, I am going to be thinking again all day.
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Re: Steps 2 and 3

Postby mule » Mon Oct 30, 2017 2:11 pm

Dan2000 wrote:Hi All

STEPS 2 and 3

Step 2 Came to believe that a power greater than myself, could restore us to sanity.

I had a hard time believing in God, even though this step, doesn't say God or religion, that's how I reacted to it.
I was brought up in a devote catholic family, I had to go to church on Sunday's and went to Sunday school as well, for many years.
However I think, when I was suppose to be learning all this stuff, I was looking out the window, daydreaming and such.
So I just had a hard time believing in something that I couldn't see or touch, I needed something more tangible.
The only time I ever prayed, prior to coming to AA, was when I was in some kind of trouble or if I was going to have surgery and stuff like that.

For me, the disease of alcoholism went like this.
Every morning I'd wake up to go to work and say to myself, I need to take a break from drinking today, my body needs a rest, I usually had the dry heaves and the shakes until lunch time. After lunch, when I had something in my stomach, and my body would start feeling a little better. My mind would start thinking of drinking. (this is the mental obsession) Then 2 o'clock would come around and my mind would start telling itself, that I should go down the bar to say hello to the guys and just have 2 beers, then go home. When I got out of work, around 3:30, I would go straight to the bar, as soon as I picked up that first drink, (the physical compulsion) kicked in and I stayed at the bar until I was drunk.
I was "powerless over alcohol" it called the shots, it said what I did from day to day, my whole life revolved around alcohol, not the other way around.
Every day, was a repeat, drink, drink, drink, for many years.
I was not able to stay sober, even for one day on my own.

Then when I started to come to AA, I was staying sober and I know it wasn't me that was keeping me sober.
This is when I came to believe that a power greater than myself was working in my life. It's as simple as that.

What you choose to be your Higher Power can be one of many examples, it does not need be religious, although it can be, if YOU wish. Your higher power could be, AA in general, a group of drunks, the God of your understanding, etc..

You just need to believe that there is a power (other than yourself) working in your life. I was a daily drunk, the disease of alcoholism called the shots, it controlled me, I could never control it.
Now I was sober, why wouldn't I believe that there was a higher power working in my life? This fact was plain to see.



Step 3 Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood him.

Our "wills"...... equal....... our thoughts

Our "lives"...... equal........ our actions

So we turn over, our thinking and our actions to the care of God, as we understand him.

We knew in Step 2 that there was a higher power working in our lives, that was keeping us sober...not our wills...my willpower never, ever worked.

Remember in Step 1, we admitted to some problems (I am the problem) (On page 64 in the big book it says, our liquor was but a symptom of our disease)

In Step 2, we found a solution (a higher power) and this was the solution because our "wills" did not work, in our "lives".

So now in Step 3 we are going to try something new, (Gods will) and we know his will works because we are sober today and because of this, it can be the basis of this very important decision.

Remember it is only a decision, We cannot act on this decision, until we do some of the other steps. We need to find out, what's been blocking us from God.

Steps 4 thru 10 are the action steps, by doing these steps they will reveal to us, what's been blocking us from God.

A.A. is a spiritual program, it is not a religious program, there is a difference.

The miracle happens when we get sober. The magic happens, when we apply the principles (steps) to all our affairs.

NOTE: The 12 Steps need to be done in sequence, because in Step 1 (the problem) had to be taken so we can do Step 2 (the solution) because we couldn't see the solution until we understood the problem, then in Step 3 we made a decision.

Dan2000

I think step three can in some ways be a blind leap, especially for those of us who have always tendes to fend for ourselves and eschew the help of others. Turning your life over to something that you possibly didn't have a strong conviction in can be a daunting endeavor. Will we feel somethin? Will we feel everything? Or will we feel everything.
Of course not everyone can expect an epiphany. That is why the steps are considered work and necessary. I do know that the idea of reaching for something with infinite more strength than me is comforting.
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Re: Steps 2 and 3

Postby desypete » Mon Nov 06, 2017 1:14 am

mule wrote:
Dan2000 wrote:Hi All

STEPS 2 and 3

Step 2 Came to believe that a power greater than myself, could restore us to sanity.

I had a hard time believing in God, even though this step, doesn't say God or religion, that's how I reacted to it.
I was brought up in a devote catholic family, I had to go to church on Sunday's and went to Sunday school as well, for many years.
However I think, when I was suppose to be learning all this stuff, I was looking out the window, daydreaming and such.
So I just had a hard time believing in something that I couldn't see or touch, I needed something more tangible.
The only time I ever prayed, prior to coming to AA, was when I was in some kind of trouble or if I was going to have surgery and stuff like that.

For me, the disease of alcoholism went like this.
Every morning I'd wake up to go to work and say to myself, I need to take a break from drinking today, my body needs a rest, I usually had the dry heaves and the shakes until lunch time. After lunch, when I had something in my stomach, and my body would start feeling a little better. My mind would start thinking of drinking. (this is the mental obsession) Then 2 o'clock would come around and my mind would start telling itself, that I should go down the bar to say hello to the guys and just have 2 beers, then go home. When I got out of work, around 3:30, I would go straight to the bar, as soon as I picked up that first drink, (the physical compulsion) kicked in and I stayed at the bar until I was drunk.
I was "powerless over alcohol" it called the shots, it said what I did from day to day, my whole life revolved around alcohol, not the other way around.
Every day, was a repeat, drink, drink, drink, for many years.
I was not able to stay sober, even for one day on my own.

Then when I started to come to AA, I was staying sober and I know it wasn't me that was keeping me sober.
This is when I came to believe that a power greater than myself was working in my life. It's as simple as that.

What you choose to be your Higher Power can be one of many examples, it does not need be religious, although it can be, if YOU wish. Your higher power could be, AA in general, a group of drunks, the God of your understanding, etc..

You just need to believe that there is a power (other than yourself) working in your life. I was a daily drunk, the disease of alcoholism called the shots, it controlled me, I could never control it.
Now I was sober, why wouldn't I believe that there was a higher power working in my life? This fact was plain to see.



Step 3 Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood him.

Our "wills"...... equal....... our thoughts

Our "lives"...... equal........ our actions

So we turn over, our thinking and our actions to the care of God, as we understand him.

We knew in Step 2 that there was a higher power working in our lives, that was keeping us sober...not our wills...my willpower never, ever worked.

Remember in Step 1, we admitted to some problems (I am the problem) (On page 64 in the big book it says, our liquor was but a symptom of our disease)

In Step 2, we found a solution (a higher power) and this was the solution because our "wills" did not work, in our "lives".

So now in Step 3 we are going to try something new, (Gods will) and we know his will works because we are sober today and because of this, it can be the basis of this very important decision.

Remember it is only a decision, We cannot act on this decision, until we do some of the other steps. We need to find out, what's been blocking us from God.

Steps 4 thru 10 are the action steps, by doing these steps they will reveal to us, what's been blocking us from God.

A.A. is a spiritual program, it is not a religious program, there is a difference.

The miracle happens when we get sober. The magic happens, when we apply the principles (steps) to all our affairs.

NOTE: The 12 Steps need to be done in sequence, because in Step 1 (the problem) had to be taken so we can do Step 2 (the solution) because we couldn't see the solution until we understood the problem, then in Step 3 we made a decision.

Dan2000

I think step three can in some ways be a blind leap, especially for those of us who have always tendes to fend for ourselves and eschew the help of others. Turning your life over to something that you possibly didn't have a strong conviction in can be a daunting endeavor. Will we feel somethin? Will we feel everything? Or will we feel everything.
Of course not everyone can expect an epiphany. That is why the steps are considered work and necessary. I do know that the idea of reaching for something with infinite more strength than me is comforting.


i think i have just given up trying to understand it all as there are always more and more questions when i find answers

i have reached a point were i just accept it works
a bit like if you switch a light switch on you dont need a full paged explanation on what is going on you just know if you press that switch the light will come on

or if you turn a tap on then water will come out, i dont really need to know where its comeing from or how it all has been put together and when you think about gods or powers out there or the universe i dont know anyone who knows what its all about

i know plenty of people who are on the quest to try to figure it all out but like i said when an answer comes to one part of it all then more questions come

so in aa terms i keep it all simple and just accept these days that is works all i have to do is work it and stop trying to understand it all or analyse stuff till it drives me nuts
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Re: Steps 2 and 3

Postby Tosh » Sun Dec 10, 2017 3:20 pm

desypete wrote:so in aa terms i keep it all simple and just accept these days that is works all i have to do is work it and stop trying to understand it all or analyse stuff till it drives me nuts


I agree, but I can't stop my brain from doing what it wants to do.

As a side note, Russell Brand has written a commentary on the 12 Steps in his book Addicted. I'm not a fan of Brand, but I gave the book a read, and I really liked it.

Knowing you a little, you might like it too?
Come, come, whoever you are. Wanderer, worshiper, lover of leaving. It doesn't matter. Ours is not a caravan of despair. Come, even if you have broken your vows a thousand times. Come, yet again, come, come.” Rumi (No sniggering from the sex addicts)
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Re: Steps 2 and 3

Postby Theo50 » Wed Jun 20, 2018 6:35 pm

Thanks for posting this Dan2000, I am a newcomer here and struggling with Step 2; "Came to believe that a power greater than myself, could restore us to sanity."
I do not have a problem admitting that I am powerless over alcohol. I am open to the idea, but how does one come to believe that a power greater than myself, could restore me to sanity without also believing that a power greater than myself, brought me to this insanity in the first place and could return me there at any given moment?
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Re: Steps 2 and 3

Postby avaneesh912 » Thu Jun 21, 2018 3:59 am

So you believe that your HP brought you to this state? I am not sure if you have started reading the big book. The alcoholic mind is so tuned to seeking that state of bliss by taking a drink or two when they are un-comfortable. Thats their main source of coping mechanism. Some get into the state quickly, some work their way into that state.

On how to come to believe.......Bills story again is a place to start. You can see how he arrived at that conclusion by looking at Ebby his friend.

Start from this line:

The door opened and he stood there, fresh-skinned and glowing. There was something about his eyes. He was inexplicably different. What had happened?

till:

Had this power originated in him? Obviously it had not. There had been no more power in him than there was in me at that minute; and this was none at all.

That floored me. It began to look as though religious people were right after all. Here was something at work in a human heart which had done the impossible. My ideas about miracles were drastically revised right then. Never mind the musty past; here sat a miracle directly across the kitchen table. He shouted great tidings.

I saw that my friend was much more than inwardly reorganized. He was on different footing. His roots grasped a new soil.
Show him, from your own experience, how the peculiar mental condition surrounding that first drink prevents normal functioning of the will power (Alcoholics Anonymous, Page 92)
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Re: Steps 2 and 3

Postby Theo50 » Thu Jun 21, 2018 3:35 pm

avaneesh912 wrote:So you believe that your HP brought you to this state? I am not sure if you have started reading the big book. The alcoholic mind is so tuned to seeking that state of bliss by taking a drink or two when they are un-comfortable. Thats their main source of coping mechanism. Some get into the state quickly, some work their way into that state.

On how to come to believe.......Bills story again is a place to start. You can see how he arrived at that conclusion by looking at Ebby his friend.

Start from this line:

The door opened and he stood there, fresh-skinned and glowing. There was something about his eyes. He was inexplicably different. What had happened?

till:

Had this power originated in him? Obviously it had not. There had been no more power in him than there was in me at that minute; and this was none at all.

That floored me. It began to look as though religious people were right after all. Here was something at work in a human heart which had done the impossible. My ideas about miracles were drastically revised right then. Never mind the musty past; here sat a miracle directly across the kitchen table. He shouted great tidings.

I saw that my friend was much more than inwardly reorganized. He was on different footing. His roots grasped a new soil.


If I chose to believe that I was created by God (my HP), then I was created with an alcoholic defect of mind, no different than any mental birth defects.
The human heart does not have any mental intelligence and is only used as a metaphor (is that the correct term?). Any mental change to a person is affected by the brain, not the heart.
have to run, will be back....
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Re: Steps 2 and 3

Postby Blue Moon » Thu Jun 21, 2018 3:51 pm

Theo50 wrote:If I chose to believe that I was created by God (my HP), then I was created with an alcoholic defect of mind, no different than any mental birth defects.
The human heart does not have any mental intelligence and is only used as a metaphor (is that the correct term?). Any mental change to a person is affected by the brain, not the heart.

How it's affected depends on what you do. Throw junk into a round pot and you have a pot full of junk, even if it was designed to hold flowers. You chose to drink, presumably your God didn't design you that way.

If there is a creative intelligence, IMO it works in a way we don't begin to understand. I get a spiritual connection with certain people that today's science just doesn't explain. Alcohol had blocked me off from forming those connections.
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Re: Steps 2 and 3

Postby avaneesh912 » Thu Jun 21, 2018 6:18 pm

If I chose to believe that I was created by God (my HP), then I was created with an alcoholic defect of mind, no different than any mental birth defects.
The human heart does not have any mental intelligence and is only used as a metaphor (is that the correct term?). Any mental change to a person is affected by the brain, not the heart.
have to run, will be back....


The human mind is a very evil. Un-observed it runs wild. Thats the freedom that all humans have. Unfortunately its really warped in an alcoholic. In eastern philosophy its called karma. We are forced to repeat the same action if we dont awaken. We are stuck in the vicious cycle. We become aware of this dysfunction and then by taking action we align ourselves with our HPs will.
Show him, from your own experience, how the peculiar mental condition surrounding that first drink prevents normal functioning of the will power (Alcoholics Anonymous, Page 92)
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Re: Steps 2 and 3

Postby Theo50 » Thu Jun 21, 2018 7:19 pm

avaneesh912 wrote:So you believe that your HP brought you to this state? I am not sure if you have started reading the big book. The alcoholic mind is so tuned to seeking that state of bliss by taking a drink or two when they are un-comfortable.

I have read almost all of the the BB. I have also listened to many of the Joe and Charlie audios.
If I choose to believe in a HP as my creator, I must believe that it was intended that I was born an alcoholic which is the reason why I cannot control my drinking. If I was born a non-alcoholic, I would not have a problem with drinking alcohol and could continue to drink in safety for the rest of my life. I must also believe that a HP intended that I be verbally and physically abused as a child. If not, then it would just be a coincidence.
I didn't become a non-alcoholic when I stopped drinking, I am still an alcoholic and must now find a way to continue my life without alcohol, or a substitute, that would bring me back to the same mental state that I was in prior to surrendering.
I have seen the results of some in AA that prove that AA is is a solution to use to continue life as an alcoholic, without drinking. I just have an issue with many of the concepts as it will require me to accept that a higher power chose for me to be born an alcoholic. I must also remove any beliefs I have that do not correspond with the AA solution. Since most of my beliefs are based on science, this will be a difficult task. If I choose to believe that my brain developed the alcoholic defect based on an "as yet to be understood" change in my brain then I can reason that there is a possibility that at some point there will be a medical cure for alcoholism. I do not expect that it will come in my lifetime, but history has shown that medical cures have been found for a significant amount of diseases, so why not alcoholism? How can anyone believe that in the entire universe there is not a medical cure for alcoholism?

I believe that if one does not fully commit to the HP or science theory of life, one's mind will always be at odds. My mind has always been at odds.

Getting back to Step 2. In order for me to come to believe that a HP can bring me to sanity, I must believe that a HP has the power to do anything, whether I perceive it as good or bad. If I could fully understand my HP, I would be an equal to my HP. In that is the case, my HP could just as easily take me back to insanity for any reason that I cannot comprehend.

Sorry for the rambling but my alcoholic mind is a mess.
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