The Athiest

The 12 Steps are the AA program of recovery from alcoholism.

Re: The Athiest

Postby positrac » Wed Sep 27, 2017 5:43 am

Interesting points and from my perspective I got into trouble with addictions and mainly with alcohol on my own accord. I have the gene in my make up and I opted to roll the dice and pull the plug and guzzle. I did it with little regard to my future and my hope for tomorrow was I'd just die and be rid of my problems because of my inability, willingness and or desire to really quit.

God and Faith outside of me is more than just between my ears as I am just a fellow in this world. No way can I see into the future and or the day or moment unless I have some conscience feeling to change my direction. I have been in war and I have walked away physically un-harmed and yet I know two guys that died in the same area I was in because they refused to heed a change in the gut..... Not some cop show on tv like TJ Hooker---- I have a gut feeling! That instinct was not me I am too stupid in the first place and secondly I was so green I had no experience on how to change my course. Faith, God and or Angels watched my back because I have traveled the world over and never been jammed up. Oh a few hustles and loss of money. But never been jumped and I know it is not my abilities either.

So putting this into my addiction I know once my desire was in place and my sick and tired of being sick and tired I had a desire to change on my efforts first and then following AA steps/traditions/members/ and how they lived. Asking for help in prayer I felt that "time" helped remove the desire and it also made me cognizant of my personal responsibility of my new life. I was sober in my war time adventures and I stayed sober afterwards due to my faith.

Anyone can call it whatever they desire as long as it works for them.
In this post I did press my beliefs on a power much greater than I and I call it God. G.O.D can also be (Good Orderly Direction) for those having issues and it is easy to just say and let the rest go because I never made a fuss over my drinking except I preferred beer over liquor.

Have a better day.
You must live your life from beginning to end: No one else can do it for you.
Hopi Proverb
User avatar
positrac
Forums Old Timer
 
Posts: 1137
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2014 4:03 am

Re: The Athiest

Postby Saratonin88 » Fri Oct 20, 2017 7:05 pm

My HIgher Power is the spirit of the universe. And if you are just admitting your wrongs to yourself, and leaving out "to God" and "to another human being", then you're not doing an honest step 5. God can be whatever you choose. It can be nature, a tree, the sky, the ocean....whatever you choose as your higher power. The point is that it's something greater than yourself. And remember that being spiritual has nothing to do with religion. AA is not a religious program.
Saratonin88
Forums Newcomer
 
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2017 4:07 pm

Re: The Athiest

Postby Patsy© » Sat Oct 21, 2017 3:29 am

Saratonin88 wrote:My HIgher Power is the spirit of the universe. And if you are just admitting your wrongs to yourself, and leaving out "to God" and "to another human being", then you're not doing an honest step 5. God can be whatever you choose. It can be nature, a tree, the sky, the ocean....whatever you choose as your higher power. The point is that it's something greater than yourself. And remember that being spiritual has nothing to do with religion. AA is not a religious program.


Thank you for a powerful share Sara, very well said! =biggrin
Failed 12 Step Call? Not if we walk away sober!
User avatar
Patsy©
Forums Contributor
 
Posts: 476
Joined: Wed May 26, 2010 5:04 pm
Location: Boston, MA

Re: The Athiest

Postby Mary » Sat Oct 21, 2017 8:19 am

Thanks for the lecture Seratonin, what you said is basically the popular consensus.

I myself get pretty tired of that old chestnut, the dull mantra that AA has nothing do do with religion and AA is not religious. Well its not religious in that you don't have to convert or ascribe to any particular religion but in the truest deepest sense of the word, actually, it is absolutely religious. And you can all pipe up with 'that's just your personal opinion' ....well a personal opinion is just an internalised norm.

Perhaps you al think I'm splitting hairs and being semantic but AA has done that to me....it's made me devoted to telling the truth as I see it and that is the religious instinct. I get so tired of the cliches that abound in AA and outside of it around what spirituality is and isn't.

That post modern fuzzy talk of God being whatever you want it to be... a tree, far from being individualistic, I find it extremely sheepish.

K.T.F
Mary
Forums Enthusiast
 
Posts: 164
Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2013 5:40 am

Re: The Athiest

Postby Patsy© » Sat Oct 21, 2017 10:29 am

The Pamphlet "Many Paths to Spirituality" is below and I hope this pamphlet helps.

https://www.aa.org/assets/en_US/p-84_ma ... uality.pdf

Alcoholics Anonymous doesn't tell anyone what to think or not think, what to believe or not believe. That is a choice for the individual to make for oneself.

To Thine Own Self Be True, whether one is religious or not. AA is all inclusive, never exclusive.

So whether one is devoted to Nothing, Something, Atheism, Agnostic, Buddhism, Mormonism, Satanism, Amish, Mayan, Lutheran, Seventh-Day Adventist, Christianity, Hinduism, Confuciansim, Judaism, Jenovahs Witness, Islam, Neopaganism, Catholic, Taoism Baptist, Stoicism, CaoDai, Protestant, Presbyteian, Divine Science, Eckankar, Anglican, Orthodox, Lutheran, or LaterDaySaints etc.

It doesn't matter to AA what one believes or doesn't believe, because ALL are welcome in Alcoholics Anonymous....even those who are ticked off about what others believe or don't believe....yes, even they are welcome. :lol:

So Welcome Mary...
Last edited by Patsy© on Sat Oct 21, 2017 10:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
Failed 12 Step Call? Not if we walk away sober!
User avatar
Patsy©
Forums Contributor
 
Posts: 476
Joined: Wed May 26, 2010 5:04 pm
Location: Boston, MA

Re: The Athiest

Postby Patsy© » Sat Oct 21, 2017 10:34 am

The following is an interesting excerpt from a talk given by Bill W. to the National Clergy Conference, On Alcoholism.

The Blue Book Vol.12, 179-210, 1960
Alcoholics Anonymous
Bill W. Co-founder of Alcoholics Anonymous
Reverend Raymond J. H. Kennedy, S. J., Chairman

In my original draft of the Twelve Steps, God was mentioned several times and only as God. It never occurred to me to qualify this to "God as we understand Him" as we did later on. Otherwise the Twelve Steps stand today almost exactly as they were first written.

When these Steps were shown to my friends, their reactions were quite mixed indeed. Some argued that six steps had worked fine, so why twelve? From our agnostic contingent there were loud cries of too much God.

Others objected to an expression which I had included which suggested getting on one's knees while in prayer. I heavily resisted these objections for months. But finally did take out my statement about a suitable prayerful posture and I finally went along with that now tremendously important expression, "God as we understand Him" -- this expression having been coined, I think, by one of our former atheist members.

This was indeed a ten-strike. That one has since enabled thousands to join AA who would have otherwise gone away. It enabled people of fine religious training and those of none at all to associate freely and to work together. It made one's religion the business of the A.A. member himself and not that of this society.


Now a final thought. Many a non-alcoholic clergyman asks these questions about Alcoholics Anonymous: "Why do clergymen so often fail with alcoholics, when AA so often succeeds? Is it possible that the grace of AA is superior to that of the Church? Is Alcoholics Anonymous a new religion, a competitor of the Church?"

If these misgivings had real substance, they would be serious indeed. But, as I have already indicated, Alcoholics Anonymous cannot in the least be regarded as a new religion. Our Twelve Steps have no theological content, except that which speaks of "God as we understand Him." This means that each individual AA member may define God according to whatever faith or creed he may have.

Neither does AA exert the slightest religious authority over its members: No one is compelled to believe anything. No one is compelled to meet membership conditions. No one is obliged to pay anything. Therefore we have no system of authority, spiritual or temporal, that is comparable to or in the least competitive with the Church. At the center of our society we have a Board of Trustees.

This body is accountable yearly to a Conference of elected Delegates. These Delegates represent the conscience and desire of AA as regards functional or service matters. Our Tradition contains an emphatic injunction that these Trustees may never constitute themselves as a government - they are to merely provide certain services that enable AA as a whole to function. The same principles apply at our group and area level.

Dr. Bob, my co-partner, had his own religious views. For whatever they may be worth, I have my own. But both of us have gone heavily on record to the effect that these personal views and preferences can never under any conditions be injected into the AA program as a working part of it. AA is a sort of spiritual kindergarten, but that is all. Never could it be called a religion.
Failed 12 Step Call? Not if we walk away sober!
User avatar
Patsy©
Forums Contributor
 
Posts: 476
Joined: Wed May 26, 2010 5:04 pm
Location: Boston, MA

Re: The Athiest

Postby clouds » Sun Oct 22, 2017 3:56 am

THis seems a good place to end the topic! =wink (Topics are closed after running five pages).
" Burn the idea into the consciousness of every man that he can get well regardless of anyone. The only condition is that he trust in God and clean house." page 98 A.A.
User avatar
clouds
Trusted Servant
 
Posts: 1063
Joined: Mon Mar 23, 2015 11:45 am
Location: España

Previous

Return to The 12 Steps

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest