The Athiest

The 12 Steps are the AA program of recovery from alcoholism.

Re: The Athiest

Postby Roberth » Tue Feb 14, 2017 10:03 am

Hello The Athiest My name is Robert and I am a Los Angeles area alcoholic. The good part about AA is there is nothing wrong with your take on the steps nor either is there anything wrong with a highly religious person’s take on them. I am also an atheist but I don’t have a problem with the word GOD. As I matter of fact I use it for a couple reasons. One of the reason is I am lazy and GOD is one syllable instead of higher power which is 3 syllables. To me it stands for a Group Of Drunk which is the collective conscience of them.

Another reason I use the word God is the first tradition. I don’t have to explain my belief. I also don’t have a problem with that others believe. I do take offence when someone tries to push their beliefs on me and I wouldn’t expect anything less if I tried to push mine on them. Unity comes in many forms and it just my way not to cause agreements about who is right. It does matter to me who is right or wrong. What matters is that my belief is right for me.
Robert
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Re: The Athiest

Postby Noels » Wed Feb 15, 2017 11:31 am

[iUnity comes in many forms and it just my way not to cause agreements about who is right. It does matter to me who is right or wrong.][/i]

Hello Robert, alcoholic from Los Angeles =biggrin Is it possible that your phone/computer automatically changed or inserted some words as quoted above? If not then ill need a little bit more explaining please.

Mwah xxx Noels
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Re: The Athiest

Postby PaigeB » Wed Feb 15, 2017 12:40 pm

Mike O wrote:
The atheist accepts as fact that there is no god.


Not even " there might be a God...how do I know?"?

That is correct. An atheist fully accepts there is no god.
The person who questions is Agnostic.
If I'm not able to say how I'm working my program today, then I'm not working my program.
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Re: The Athiest

Postby Mike O » Tue Mar 07, 2017 12:01 pm

I'm clear on the definitions, Paige.
:D
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Re: The Athiest

Postby PaigeB » Tue Mar 07, 2017 12:30 pm

=biggrin =ugeek =geek
We are on the same Page then LOL :lol: :lol: :mrgreen:
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Re: The Athiest

Postby Mary » Thu Apr 27, 2017 2:18 am

Ok regulators.....deep breath!

I am sick and tired of listening to windy atheists. Then don't some of you might say. Well I'm forced to in many forms. Atheism outside of AA is consuming society and its more dangerous than global warming. I thought I had a lot more to say but actually I'll just say this:

It takes more effort, courage and discipline to come to believe and practice faith than it does to study and spout sonorous windy (Moderator Edit) ...articles/arguments.
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Re: The Athiest

Postby Mary » Thu Apr 27, 2017 2:36 am

I'm not sure if it was a serious point but someone made the suggestion that you make science your God? Hmmm, now what could be the problem with that? The problem is, (Moderator Edit) essentially it would be making man God! And what's wrong with that?

Stalinist Russia
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Re: The Athiest

Postby Blue Moon » Thu Apr 27, 2017 5:29 am

Mary wrote:Atheism outside of AA is consuming society and its more dangerous than global warming.

Really? Do you seriously expect any non-zealot to believe this, or are you just trolling?
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Re: The Athiest

Postby clouds » Thu Apr 27, 2017 5:59 am

We are here to solve our comman problem, its alcoholism.

Aetheists are sometimes alcoholics.

So, we all belong here if we are alcoholics.
" Burn the idea into the consciousness of every man that he can get well regardless of anyone. The only condition is that he trust in God and clean house." page 98 A.A.
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Re: The Athiest

Postby Mary » Thu Apr 27, 2017 7:22 am

@ Blue Moon

Yes really, I do believe what I wrote. I did actually delete the comment after it but somehow it still has been put up. Perhaps God decided it wasn't so high handed after all.

And no, I don't expect many people to share my belief but it's spurious of you to assume that I'm a zealot. As for trolling? Again, no I am not. I actually felt inflamed at the first sharers last line - leave out the spiritual - everyone else on the forum seemed to meet it with compassion and patience if not a degree of reverence. Surely there is room for a tiny minority to meet it with anger.
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Re: The Athiest

Postby Mary » Thu Apr 27, 2017 7:51 am

(Moderator edit)mich m jong, the original speaker is not a minority view. I live in a country that is coming close to banning all forms of religious expression in public. And I don't think many see how dangerous it is. Even in AA I feel people are too sanguine about it.
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Re: The Athiest

Postby positrac » Thu Apr 27, 2017 8:04 am

positrac wrote:Simple program for complicated people. We all want to feel this importance and it is born in us and not something I believe is manifested and so GOD: Good Orderly Direction. Real simple and it can be a rock, book or whatever until you've grown and matured to accept what you can change and the wisdom to know the difference.

Stop beating yourself up because you are unique! For example the old saying about prisoners and if they are guilty? They aren't guilty and just got a bad rap! So us drunks and druggies are unique...... Seriously? One day at a time is all that is ever really required and you do that without anyone's help.

Get out of your way and I promise it'll sink in and then all of this over thinking will eventually answer itself.

You are fighting change and obviously much more is under the surface on that subject and time will help you with that when you are ready and when you are sick and tired of being sick and tired you'll work that process.

Have a good day.

everyone else on the forum seemed to meet it with compassion and patience if not a degree of reverence. Surely there is room for a tiny minority to meet it with anger.



Mary: people have to start someplace and if either side for the belief of God-or Athiestism is force fed down the throats of newcomers they will surely run and use again and that isn't the mission of AA unless something has changed?

That individual to whom you spoke of is out drinking and is in serious denial of life and his role in life and thus the issues with anything remotely organized that holds others accountable.

I hear you and I agree we are all in a bad spot and one day we might see these results used against us and it won't be subtle either. But for the topic of alcoholism I am sober today by the grace of God and nothing else.
You must live your life from beginning to end: No one else can do it for you.
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Re: The Athiest

Postby Barbara D. » Thu Apr 27, 2017 9:11 am

I was atheist when I got here. I used the Group as my Higher Power for yearS. I had a physical and mental negative reaction to the word "God" and said "Higher Power" to make sure no one would push religion down my throat as was the case at home. I had a hard time with the religious undercurrent in the AA literature until I realized our Founders "were not saints" and had to project American Christian culture because that's where they came from. I was able to take Step 3 when some of you convinced me this was a spiritual program and was successful for religious and non-religious drunks. I was able to take Step 4 based on the character defect idea and got huffy when anybody referred to "sins." For a while I said I was agnostic, meaning that I had no experience with a personal God but could not judge your experience or what I might come to believe in the future.

My belief system has had various growing pains over the years. I saw that I played God in my own life and expected myself to have knowledge of how to regulate others. I was/am convinced that Man was/is not God's pet species. I believe in evolution and the record in the rocks. I gradually let go of needing to understand my own God concept and having all the answers. In the last decade, the God of My Understanding embraced the "everywhere, everything" concept to the point of being a phenomenon rather than an entity. When I get quiet and try to connect, in an instant, I am traveling fast among the stars and then whoosh, I see sunlight sparkling on water in a stream. I get my spiritual touch.

To me, it's not about who is right or wrong. I became aware when I was trying to be in charge and could attack the brick wall or let go. Without that, I doubt I would have gotten sober. I feel sure atheists and agnostics vary in their beliefs every bit as much as religious folks sitting on pews in their churches, I would not dream of taking it upon myself to speak for all members of a any group. I believe that our WE is the bond of alcoholism, but I had to approach the Steps on my own path with your support but on my own wavelength. I think one of the wonders of Recovery is that it can be customized to fit any of our stories.

Sooo, I'm not athiest, agnostic, or religious...but I do have a God of my Understanding!!! Happy Thursday! Barbara D.
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Re: The Athiest

Postby PaigeB » Thu Apr 27, 2017 9:40 am

the God of My Understanding embraced the "everywhere, everything" concept to the point of being a phenomenon rather than an entity.

I like that. Thanks Barbara. Only you people in AA understand that I can be an atheist and still honestly answer that question on page 53 of the BB that "god is everything."

I guess I feel bad for the new comers - and folks who are still drinking. I know how afraid I was when I thought AA was trying to take away my best friend and I am glad I got over the HP hump (using semantics) because if I had not gotten over it, I would still be drinking. But I cannot help them get over that hump no matter what I say - I am merely a Channel, I have no power to change a drunk - I am just "uniquely qualified to help."

Our disease is Physical, Emotional, Mental & Spiritual. We need to address each part. But this is really an inner journey. Each person must decide for themselves if they are alcoholic and do the work of this program. A big part of that is searching deep down inside ourselves for the idea of God and resurrecting a belief that we can work with on a personal basis. It is immensely personal. I would no sooner tell you who & what God Your HP should look like than I would tell you what & how to wear your "underwear". Think of it... we each have an idea in our head of what that word means, but you can ready well guess that we all have different ideas about what it is and what it looks like! :lol:
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Re: The Athiest

Postby Brock » Thu Apr 27, 2017 10:40 am

Mary said –
I am sick and tired of listening to windy atheists. Then don't some of you might say. Well I'm forced to in many forms.

She is taking some heat for some of the things she said, but in truth I believe she has a point. A friend sent me a Jeff Foxworthy talk called the fence test, which side of the fence are you on, Republican or Democrat, it says things like - “If a Republican doesn't like guns, he doesn't buy one. If a Democrat doesn't like guns, he wants all guns outlawed.” And “If a Republican is a non-believer, he doesn't go to church. A Democrat non-believer wants any mention of God and religion silenced.”

In my experience a limited number of people are outwardly 'showy' about their belief, these include some Muslims who feel they have to walk around with only their eyes exposed, and various little cult like groups who chant stuff in public places. On the other hand the atheists are a most vocal and demanding bunch, who wear their non belief as if it were a badge of honor. A well respected member here recently reported going to a large AA convention, and boasted of introducing themselves as 'I am so and so and I am a sober atheist,' nobody else I am sure said they believe in X Y or Z, when introducing themselves.

Here's another line from the Foxworthy list - “If a Republican is homosexual, he quietly leads his life. If a Democrat is homosexual, he demands legislated respect.” The very person who started this thread, was also upset because a couple of the members at his group, were less than polite about him being a homosexual, information which he said he proudly gave the group. And we have had several others come here and speak about the same thing, for some reason they have to come out and state their sexuality, or their lack of belief in God. Maybe we can switch a line from 'How it Works' to apply to this as well - “So our troubles, we think, are basically of our own making.”
"Good morning, this is your Higher Power speaking. I will not be needing your help today."
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