Fearless, but so fearful

The 12 Steps are the AA program of recovery from alcoholism.

Re: Fearless, but so fearful

Postby Patsy© » Fri Jun 17, 2016 8:33 am

Stepchild wrote:Just offering another side of the coin Patzy...I think that's healthy. They touch on this in the book..

Another feeling we are very likely to entertain is one of resentment that love and loyalty could not cure our husbands of alcoholism. We do not like the thought that the contents of a book or the work of another alcoholic has accomplished in a few weeks that for which we struggled for years.
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Perhaps it would better for you and the newcomer in the future if you aren't offering another side of my experience, my experience isn't up for interpretation. Reaching out to the newcomer and helping the newcomer with your own experience.... that would have been healthy :mrgreen:
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Re: Fearless, but so fearful

Postby Stepchild » Fri Jun 17, 2016 8:42 am

I'm not in a debating mood today.....

Feeya, recovery is a process, one day at a time, sometimes one moment at a time.... we didn't get to where we are in our alcoholism overnight or in a few months and we are not going to walk out the other side, over night or in a few months........so Please, Easy Does It, and stay in this ONE DAY and realize that not knowing... IS A GIFT.


But this sounds more like stating a fact...Than sharing ES&H.
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Re: Fearless, but so fearful

Postby Patsy© » Fri Jun 17, 2016 9:13 am

Stepchild wrote:I'm not in a debating mood today.....

Feeya, recovery is a process, one day at a time, sometimes one moment at a time.... we didn't get to where we are in our alcoholism overnight or in a few months and we are not going to walk out the other side, over night or in a few months........so Please, Easy Does It, and stay in this ONE DAY and realize that not knowing... IS A GIFT.


But this sounds more like stating a fact...Than sharing ES&H.


Oh, that is because it IS a fact!
For someone who isn't in a debating mood today, your actions speak so much louder than your words :D
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Re: Fearless, but so fearful

Postby Stepchild » Fri Jun 17, 2016 9:43 am

Maybe my experience is just closer to Bill W.'s words...Speaking of his sponsor...

In a matter of fact way he told how two men had appeared in court, persuading the judge to suspend his commitment. They had told of a simple religious idea and a practical program of action. That was two months ago and the result was self-evident. It worked!
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Re: Fearless, but so fearful

Postby Patsy© » Fri Jun 17, 2016 9:54 am

That was the Oxford members who appeared in court. And Actually Page 9, Bill was talking with Ebby at his own table, while Bill was drunk. Ebby wasn't his sponsor then. But ok, lets go on what you posted! So, Bill W. also had a white light experience, are you saying that everyone will or ought to? Of course not, because THAT was Bill's experience.

You do realize that Ebby died drunk...

Perhaps you can't help but debate, do you have any control over what you say you want, verses what your behavior says that you want? :lol:
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Re: Fearless, but so fearful

Postby Brock » Fri Jun 17, 2016 10:26 am

I think the problem with this is that by putting a length of time, like saying in a few months we are not going to walk out the other side, is pretty much the same as saying we will not have done the steps in a certain length of time, and that is something surely we should not say. We do know that in the 'old days' they went through the steps very quickly, and in the book under 'A Vision for You' we see things like this - “That afternoon he put on his clothes and walked from the hospital a free man.”

There is a danger on both sides, some will say they can't wait a few months or more for relief, and may not try at all. If we say a few weeks, those who don't get the relief by doing the steps in that time, will say there is something wrong with them or their sponsor. We can avoid much disagreement if when giving our ES&H we say I, not we.
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Re: Fearless, but so fearful

Postby Patsy© » Fri Jun 17, 2016 10:38 am

I hear you Brock and the simple truth is this, that each person has their own experience, some will take the steps in a few days as you said, and some won't.

I didn't put a time frame on doing the steps, I simply shared that we didn't get to where we are in our alcoholism overnight, and that is the simple truth.... and we are not going to walk out the other side in a few months and that is the simple truth also. None of us knows when someone will recover....but to come on here and make a big deal out of what I shared with a newcomer, is IN Reality......None of his business. To be critiquing my share, instead of sharing his own ES&H..... isn't helping anyone, especially the Newcomer....and THAT is the problem!
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Re: Fearless, but so fearful

Postby Stepchild » Fri Jun 17, 2016 10:44 am

I simply shared that we didn't get to where we are in our alcoholism overnight, and that is the simple truth.... and we are not going to walk out the other side in a few months and that is the simple truth also.


Your truth...Not mine. That's the problem.
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Re: Fearless, but so fearful

Postby Noels » Fri Jun 17, 2016 10:45 am

Since I'm not going to participate or contribute to the forum anymore I'm going to be honest, and hopefully save another suffering alcoholic or existing member this woman's intolerant and belittling behaviour.
Patsy I said I'm always honest and I admitted I don't like you from the start which was strange to me as I usually get on with everyone. Now I know why my gut warned me.
You are a mean person trying to hide it with your BB knowledge. Granted you can recite BB from page 1 but any monkey with half a brain can study, remember and recite. Nothing special. about it. Your knowledge about people and interacting with people is as limited as your spiritual development. After being sober and working the 12 steps for 27 years according to you I would have expected you to be more like Spirit flower, Ann, Duke and Clouds. For incase you don't know, spiritual development or in your case the lack of it is visible in your posts which reflects your attitude and state of mind.
Perhaps it would be worth your while to wonder who created the great big ocean you chose as your HP and then actually get in touch with the REAL HP and Creator. That should fast forward your spiritual development to match your sobriety period.
From your posts and even the one above to Stepchild only you are ALWAYS right. You have to have the last say to be right no matter the cost. Go back over all your posts and see if I'm wrong.

You have made this forum very unpleasant and if you are allowed to continue with this behaviour newcomers will soon see through you and not ask for help anymore. Too scared to be ripped to pieces by Patsy shooting her mouth off again. You know I'm actually now considering staying since I got all this off my chest so why don't you leave and open a Patsy knows it all and is always right because you clearly don't need our input.
You are a physical example given to us to show us the meaning of self will run riot and I thank my Creator for this. It also bring to mind another quote I heard about somewhere - 'I thank God for placing difficult people on my path for they show me EXACTLY who and what I don't want to be. '
A well intended suggestion - go and do what you suggest to everyone else. to do. Pull the cotton wool out of your ears and put it in your mouth.
Love and light
Noels
PS - yes I suggest you phone your sponsor now
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Re: Fearless, but so fearful

Postby Patsy© » Fri Jun 17, 2016 10:50 am

Stepchild wrote:
I simply shared that we didn't get to where we are in our alcoholism overnight, and that is the simple truth.... and we are not going to walk out the other side in a few months and that is the simple truth also.


Your truth...Not mine. That's the problem.


Exactyly, it was My Share, my truth...... and again, my share and my experience is none of your business.
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Re: Fearless, but so fearful

Postby Stepchild » Fri Jun 17, 2016 11:01 am

Brock wrote: We can avoid much disagreement if when giving our ES&H we say I, not we.


Amen....I'm not going to tell someone that just relapsed that diving into these steps can't work...It worked for me.
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Re: Fearless, but so fearful

Postby Patsy© » Fri Jun 17, 2016 11:04 am

Noels wrote:Since I'm not going to participate or contribute to the forum anymore I'm going to be honest, and hopefully save another suffering alcoholic or existing member this woman's intolerant and belittling behaviour.
Patsy I said I'm always honest and I admitted I don't like you from the start which was strange to me as I usually get on with everyone. Now I know why my gut warned me.
You are a mean person trying to hide it with your BB knowledge. Granted you can recite BB from page 1 but any monkey with half a brain can study, remember and recite. Nothing special. about it. Your knowledge about people and interacting with people is as limited as your spiritual development. After being sober and working the 12 steps for 27 years according to you I would have expected you to be more like Spirit flower, Ann, Duke and Clouds. For incase you don't know, spiritual development or in your case the lack of it is visible in your posts which reflects your attitude and state of mind.
Perhaps it would be worth your while to wonder who created the great big ocean you chose as your HP and then actually get in touch with the REAL HP and Creator. That should fast forward your spiritual development to match your sobriety period.
From your posts and even the one above to Stepchild only you are ALWAYS right. You have to have the last say to be right no matter the cost. Go back over all your posts and see if I'm wrong.

You have made this forum very unpleasant and if you are allowed to continue with this behaviour newcomers will soon see through you and not ask for help anymore. Too scared to be ripped to pieces by Patsy shooting her mouth off again. You know I'm actually now considering staying since I got all this off my chest so why don't you leave and open a Patsy knows it all and is always right because you clearly don't need our input.
You are a physical example given to us to show us the meaning of self will run riot and I thank my Creator for this. It also bring to mind another quote I heard about somewhere - 'I thank God for placing difficult people on my path for they show me EXACTLY who and what I don't want to be. '
A well intended suggestion - go and do what you suggest to everyone else. to do. Pull the cotton wool out of your ears and put it in your mouth.
Love and light
Noels
PS - yes I suggest you phone your sponsor now



Please, get off the internet and get to face to face AA meetings, and then ask for help!
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Re: Fearless, but so fearful

Postby Patsy© » Fri Jun 17, 2016 11:05 am

Amen....I'm not going to tell someone that just relapsed that diving into these steps can't work...It worked for me.


Please, show me where I shared that! Try to read what I actually write and not what you desperately need to see!

Its much more important for you to critique others shares, then to actually reach out and help ANYONE, even a newcomer!!
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Re: Fearless, but so fearful

Postby Spirit Flower » Fri Jun 17, 2016 12:31 pm

Please everyone. Directly dis-agreeing isn't helping.
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Re: Fearless, but so fearful

Postby Feeya » Fri Jun 17, 2016 1:36 pm

All of this was actually very helpful. I thank all of you for sharing and for your advice.

What I take from this thread is, that the only thing I need to do is go to face to face meetings and listen to the people there and not let myself get confused over oldtimers fighting over who is the better recovering alcoholic.

I will talk to my sponsor more, I will get in touch with other people at face to face meetings more and if I ever come across a Newcomer who thinks seeking advice in an online forum is the solution, I will share with them what I just witnessed.
I am very grateful for this debate and your fighting as it has shown me very clearly what I need to do.

I have experienced AA as a safe place. A place where we don't judge, but listen. Where we don't tell others what to do, but share our ES&H. I am so grateful that that was the first impression I had when walking through the door, because for the first time in my life I felt like I was okay.

Someone send me a private message earlier today and told me to get off the Internet and get some time under my belt before I come back and I will greatly take this advice, as it seems like this is not the right place for me to feel safe to ask for help, at least not right now.

If I was any good at quoting the BB I would do that now, as I am sure Bill would have had something great to say about situations like this. But I am not any good at that yet.
So I'll say it my way: We are all sitting in the same boat. We don't have to marry each other, we don't have to like each other, we don't even have to agree with each other. All we got to do is paddle together. And if someone is paddling into the wrong direction we can show him wich direction we are going in. Without insulting, without shaming and most of all without blaming.
That's how I look at AA.


Thank you.
One day at a time.
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