The 12 Steps are the AA program of recovery from alcoholism.


Postby Noels » Thu Apr 21, 2016 1:13 pm

Good evening folks :D Just came from an awesome meeting.
Please help- I completed step 5 on Monday evening. By Tuesday morning I already noticed a change in certain defects which i asked my Creator to remove - which seems to cover steps 6 and 7 ? So I'm moving on to Step 8 and 9. Is that correct or is there a suggested period in between the steps? If my understanding is correct then i now need to go back to my list which i discussed with another member in Step 5 and find the people whom i have harmed through my drinking. Which i have already done. I'm now busy reading how to make amends being step 9. So do i once i have asked for guidance from my Creator move into making amends directly or is there anything else i still need to do before this?
Looking forward to hearing from you.
Love and Light


Postby PaigeB » Thu Apr 21, 2016 6:19 pm

Please help-

Ok - but you should ask your sponsor and stick with what she says...
.... which seems to cover steps 6 and 7 ? So I'm moving on to Step 8 and 9. Is that correct or is there a suggested period in between the steps?

Maybe not so fast... the BB speaks little of these 2 Steps, but I also read Steps 6 & 7 in the 12 & 12. I had to stop because I was stalling on getting to Step 8, so I spent extra time meditating on Willingness (6) and Humility (7)
If my understanding is correct then i now need to go back to my list which i discussed with another member in Step 5 and find the people whom i have harmed through my drinking. Which i have already done.

The 4th Step list only helped me begin... there were a lot more people that I hurt that I did not resent and a couple of people I resented that I did not hurt.
I'm now busy reading how to make amends being step 9. So do i once i have asked for guidance from my Creator move into making amends directly or is there anything else i still need to do before this?

The necessary qualities for Step 9 are listed on page 83 of BOTH the BB and the 12 & 12... need to be sensible, tactful, considerate and humble... Good judgement, a careful sense of timing, courage, and prudence. I ALSO discussed this list with my sponsor before making amends... there are amends I was not ready to make, amends I needed to make even though I was afraid and still others I was advised not to do at all because my motives for doing so were not pure. I would not have been nearly as considered and prudent had I not had a couple of humbling conversations with my sponsor. AND I got some good ideas about what to say if I got stuck and when it was over I could talk to her about what happened. It maybe not say to do this in the book, but I am so very glad that I discussed my 8th Step list with someone else.
If I'm not able to say how I'm working my program today, then I'm not working my program.
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Postby Noels » Fri Apr 22, 2016 12:03 am

Good morning Paige :D thank you very much for your reply. I don't have a sponsor hehehehehe you are all my sponsors so when I'm unsure I ask here :D What you said makes sense. Since last night there are one or two more people that came to mind so the meditation idea is something I have to implement again. I haven't been meditating the way I used to for the last couple of months.
I will pause for a while, meditate and continue to add as it comes up.
Thank you very very much for your help so far. Much appreciated.
Have an awesome weekend and we'll chat again soon. The weather here seems to be in a state of confusion also - yesterday was dark and rainy skies, really cold and today is open sky and sunny :D We're supposed to be half way through autumn yet no leaves have fallen yet. The trees are still full and green. That again shows me that no matter what we say or how much we research and predict, scheme and think, God's creation (and in this instance Mother Earth) remains unpredictable and possibly even more importantly, that our Creator's timing does not run on our schedule.
Thanks again for all your help so far and chat soon.
Mwah xxx


Postby avaneesh912 » Fri Apr 22, 2016 4:11 am

You are pretty much in step 10 once you have done 5th. We have a list of short-comings we need to work on, we have list of people to make amends. We start meditating in the morning (11), watch for selfish, self-centered conducts throughout the day (10) and take a inventory of deeds in the night (11). Using the disciplines we make amends.

This thought brings us to Step Ten
(The thought is what I listed above).
Show him, from your own experience, how the peculiar mental condition surrounding that first drink prevents normal functioning of the will power (Alcoholics Anonymous, Page 92)
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Postby whipping post » Fri Apr 22, 2016 4:42 am

Hi Noels,

My experience was that I did 6 and 7 the same day that I did my fifth step. Like Paige I had a lot of people on my amends list that weren't on my fourth step list. I second her suggestion about visiting with someone who has done them before before making amends. I also prayed for the willingness to make them even though I was never a big prayer person. I found that willingness was where I stumped my toe a little bit when it came to some people on my list.
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Postby Noels » Fri Apr 22, 2016 5:06 am

Thank you gents. I appreciate the replies. It seems I need to get back to my meditation. Thank you very much for your help. Have an awesome weekend.
Mwah xxx


Postby Brock » Fri Apr 22, 2016 6:38 am

I believe the whole point of making amends is to remove obstacles to spiritual growth, the book speaks of things blocking us from the sunlight of the spirit. Everyone is different, again the book speaks of the great importance in making financial restitution to those we stole or borrowed from swindled etc., but many of us were pretty nice law abiding alcoholics, kind and considerate a great amount of the time, and don't owe a cent. Also they speak of 'living amends,' if I was selfish in my relationship with my wife for many years, but now she has been seeing the new me for some time and I treat her well, that's living amends no need to go and say I am sorry.

As some have mentioned while we skip across 6 & 7 a bit fast at first, these are important steps for our future serenity and spiritual development, separate books have even been written on these two steps. We will be living with step 10 principles in mind, as we go through the day we find ourselves slipping, judging the actions of others without knowing what they are going through, our ego having us overly concerned about what impression we give to others, all sorts of things which screw with our mind and contribute to irritable feelings. In just a couple of seconds we can recognize what we are doing & ask God to remove the thought or action, 6 & 7 over & over. The book says such things become a 'working part of the mind,' as we practice this the faults will appear less often, hopefully some faults will be entirely eliminated.

In my own case it was particularly important to remember the instructions that we don't beat ourselves up over amends we can't make, people we may have lost contact with etc., we say I will make amends if and when it is possible to do so and move on.
"Good morning, this is your Higher Power speaking. I will not be needing your help today."
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Postby Spirit Flower » Fri Apr 22, 2016 6:53 am

Always read the 12x12 too. In there, for step 8, it mentions going back through your entire life. It was extremely helpful to me to see the patterns of people once I had the entire list.
Or course, I had no plan to make amends to everyone in my entire life. But if I was willing, I found that there was an energy shift that improved humility and spirituality.

You can read the 12x12 online at ... traditions
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Postby Stepchild » Fri Apr 22, 2016 7:13 am

I see you are doing this without a sponsor...Which is fine. But I would suggest staying close to the directions in the Big Book. I'm not sure who you did your fifth step with...But one of the reasons I chose to work with another alcoholic who had done these steps....A sponsor...Is for help with the identification and causes of the character defects I had. It was amazing how many of them were fear driven.
I think this a vital part right before step 6 that hasn't been mentioned yet...Straight from the directions...

Returning home we find a place where we can be quiet for an hour, carefully reviewing what we have done. We thank God from the bottom of our heart that we know Him better. Taking this book down from our shelf we turn to the page which contains the twelve steps. Carefully reading the first five proposals we ask if we have omitted anything, for we are building an arch through which we shall walk a free man at last. Is our work solid so far? Are the stones properly in place? Have we skimped on the cement put into the foundation? Have we tried to make mortar without sand?

pg 75

We want to make sure the work on the first 5 steps is solid. I mean...He asks the same question five different ways...There has to be something to that. There is a lot of prayer involved in these steps. It's where I learned to use it.
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Postby Noels » Fri Apr 22, 2016 1:59 pm

Thank you so much, each and every one of you. Mwah xxx. I learn a little something from every person and I do appreciate you very much. Thank you for that and thank you for being you.
I am definitely going to pause a little before moving forward with the amends side. I will also sit down with the member who heard my fifth before proceeding further once the list is definitely completed and will be meditating again from tomorrow morning. I have been praying too much lately (if one can pray too much) but especially because I believe that when I pray I speak and my Creator listens and when I meditate my Creator speaks and I listen so I have neglected that very important side. I don't know if you guys have listened to the Eckhardt books but I'm busy listening to the first one now and its really uplifting and calming. Very similar yet also not quite the same as meditation. (don't know if I put that in the best or most understanding words). If you haven't yet I strongly suggest our friend Avaneesh hook you up :D Thanks Avaneesh :D youre a darling :D
And yes, although I'm pausing on the actual action of step 9 I am going to be living 10 and 11 on a daily basis as suggested. To make sure nothing new gets parking space in my head or heart.
:D Stephchild thank you :D I did actually take some time to go over the steps again as per your suggestion. Not the same evening though, the next evening. Reading your post though just confirmed that I need to pause before jumping in with 9 to make sure everything is solid.
Because I don't have a one person sponsor as such I don't know how sponsors work but from what ive experienced so far, steps 4 and 5 is exceptionally important so I hope the sponsors explain to the " young alkies " trying to recover how very important these steps are.
Step 1 was difficultish but once I acknowledged to and with myself that every time I took a drink I got drunk it was a done deal.
Step 2 really only need an open mindedness that there is a Power greater than oneself then that ones done.
Step 3 is willinginess to confirm the Power and if anyone is unsure I would suggest saying the step 3 prayer every morning when they wake up. By saying it verbally you unconsciously turn your life and will over to such Power on a daily basis. It will work almost like an affirmation - the first few days may feel strange by saying it aloud but within a week it will become your morning mantra and the most important - it will begin to work.
Step 4 is starting to look within. Being honest is not really that difficult. I believe that my Creator sees and knows everything I think, say and do before I even think, say or do it. Our Creator is the Highest Power. The Power that made me and if this Power love and accept me knowing all these things already, why would I be worried about another human finding out or knowing these thnings? If step 4 is approached on that basis then we really don't need to worry about what any fellow human would or could think about our defects? Ive also always believed that I can lie to everybody else but I can never lie to myself. HOWEVER, step 4 is exceptionally important because unless we " loose " the things that held us back in the past we will be and are unable to experience the present in full. What comes to mind is the guy who is dragging a bag full of rocks behind him. He walks slow because of the weight. However, if he looses the bag, he moves much faster as he is not carrying that unnecessary weight. Who on earth would want to carry a bag full of rocks in any case? Lekker daft :lol:
Step 5 in itself is the " beginning " to teach us humility with our fellow men. Its not that difficult as we already saw in step 4 (while doing our lists) what our defects are so now its simply a question of admitting it to another human being. Once again, our Higher Power already knows these defects and by writing it down we've confirmed and admitted these defects not only to ourselves but also to our Higher Power so if we could do that and approach it on that basis we can blurt it out quite easily. And yes. I did notice that there are one or two exactly the same defects that was under every name so this must be the main ones. Here and there there were other ones WITH these two buggers but if looked at honestly, these other little ones will automatically disappear when the two main ones disappear. I found that the day after I did step 5 the one defect was automatically gone. I could see that through my actions which was automatic. I haven't just left it though, I still pray continuously throughout the day that all these defects that became apparent from step 4 and 5 is removed.
So that's my experience of steps 1 - 5 so far in simple format. Hehehehehe please don't think I'm re-writing the big book or the 12 steps. I would never do that. I'm just documenting my personal experience in my own words for myself and also hoping that it could possibly help someone like me in the future. One never knows and if we can make life lighter for even just one soul it will be worth living.

Thank you once again for all your help, patience, understanding, guidance and good hearted disagreements. I do love each and every one of you.
Sleep tight and chat again soon. I'm off to my happy place. :D
Love and Light


Postby D'oh » Fri Apr 22, 2016 7:43 pm

My first time threw the steps, I had completed my 5th step with my Sponsor and returned home "Where I could be quiet for an hour" I again looked at the defects that were listed and thought "Of course I want them removed". I found a peace but later found out that peace came from the 5th step and getting things off of my chest. This I found out my second time threw the steps.

I didn't get that same feeling. I actually called my Sponsor and asked if he might have missed something. Still nothing. The next week we had our area's Round Up.

A fellow member Pete W (machinegun Pete my Sponsor called him) spoke, and on the 6th and 7th step. He was a Reverend so he had a belief of God. He stood in front of the whole crowd with a sheet of paper. He started tearing small pieces off of the sheet, saying this was greed, envy, false pride, he tore nearly half of the sheet for lust.

He then asked "What do we have left?" A quarter of what was once a whole page. He then said that God replaces those missing pieces with good, that we would not be left unwhole.

It then became clear to me that the 6th and 7th steps, were in fact Steps. Steps into the Unknown. Who was I going to be without my Defects? But I also had a belief that my HP wasn't going to leave me 1/2 a person as I went on from there.

So yes 6 and 7 were tricky for me, such short steps as written in the BB, but with Faith and Guidance, I was able to understand them.
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