Step Question

The 12 Steps are the AA program of recovery from alcoholism.

Re: Step Question

Postby D'oh » Thu Mar 17, 2016 6:05 pm

So, may I ask "Why does someone going through the steps more than once bother you?" It is their program their effort, their lose or win!

In our area, we hold what is called Commitment Groups. Where a Group Commits to going through the steps together, only as fast as the slowest person. There is a Chair Person and a Co Chair Person, both have to have gone through the steps themselves at least once. My Sponsor and I were working on Step 3 when I joined my first 1. I was Co Chair at my 2nd Commitment Group, when I finally realized that step 6 and 7 were actually steps, not just wishing or thinking I didn't have defects.

Having just come back, I asked 1 fellow to be a Sponsor, another just kind of signed up after a couple of coffees. Both knew me the first time in, both helped me after my world fell apart again. Neither asked me to go through the steps again, but when a Commitment Group started, and I joined, the second joined with me with reluctance. We are just about done and my Sponsor seems more grateful for having gone through the steps again than even the New Comers in the group.

And actually, in Dr. Bob and the Good Oldtimer's, it suggests after a relapse to start at step 3, if of course the member comes back to the program.
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Re: Step Question

Postby Stepchild » Thu Mar 17, 2016 6:19 pm

D'oh wrote:So, may I ask "Why does someone going through the steps more than once bother you?" It is their program their effort, their lose or win!


It doesn't bother me at all...I said that. But when people share like it is part of the program when there is never a suggestion in the book that it is necessary...I find it misleading. The book clearly says if we've worked the first nine steps...The problem is removed.....It does not exist for us...Based on how we maintain it through steps 10 through 12. That's a message I believe in and share. Also one that I can back up with my own experience as well as the experience of people who put this program together. That means something. You want to share that's what you do...Ad on that's your program...Not "the" program.
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Re: Step Question

Postby Stepchild » Thu Mar 17, 2016 6:21 pm

D'oh wrote:And actually, in Dr. Bob and the Good Oldtimer's, it suggests after a relapse to start at step 3, if of course the member comes back to the program.


I strongly believe in that...With the exception I'd start with step one.
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Re: Step Question

Postby D'oh » Thu Mar 17, 2016 8:46 pm

True, the first 9 steps are about accepting a new way of life, and cleaning up our old ways. The remainder are about Maintaining the Gift that has been granted to us.

And perhaps it is just me. I have had the gift, from doing the steps, and lost it. That is why I look at it as a gift, that I don't own, but I have full use of it as long as I do a few simple steps.

I was told early that I would not keep the Promises without doing the Musts. Today I try to Focus on the Musts. I also try to be open to anyway that others may see them. For the Book is meant to be Suggestive only. Every one may see it in a New and interesting way.
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Re: Step Question

Postby Stepchild » Thu Mar 17, 2016 10:05 pm

D'oh wrote:For the Book is meant to be Suggestive only.


You can look at it like that....Or you can look at it like this....

It works - it really does.

We alcoholics are undisciplined. So we let God discipline us in the simple way we have just outlined.

pg 88

It's worked for me.
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Re: Step Question

Postby avaneesh912 » Fri Mar 18, 2016 3:45 am

By working the reminder of the steps, we are addressing the un-manageability of step one. So to say, we don't have to work the first few steps, at-least for me doesn't make sense. And step 3 is embedded in all the reminder of the steps. Take the 11 step morning meditation part you will see what I am saying. And 4 through 9 is again part of 10 and 11. When we work with new-comers and help someone here understand step one we are re-visiting powerlessness-ness. Thats why working with others so important.
Show him, from your own experience, how the peculiar mental condition surrounding that first drink prevents normal functioning of the will power (Alcoholics Anonymous, Page 92)
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Re: Step Question

Postby Lali » Fri Mar 18, 2016 5:11 am

avaneesh912 wrote:By working the reminder of the steps, we are addressing the un-manageability of step one. So to say, we don't have to work the first few steps, at-least for me doesn't make sense. And step 3 is embedded in all the reminder of the steps. Take the 11 step morning meditation part you will see what I am saying. And 4 through 9 is again part of 10 and 11. When we work with new-comers and help someone here understand step one we are re-visiting powerlessness-ness. Thats why working with others so important.


I have heard (many a time) that If a person goes out, they need to start back at 1 because that means they really didn't get it the first time. Makes sense to me.

I have a question that I need clarification on. A former sponsor of mine would have me do a step 4 and 5 if a new character defect came up or if I realized I had left something out in my first step 4 even if a lot of time had elapsed since I had done step 4. Others say you handle new defects with step 10 instead. Which is right?
Step 1: I can't
Step 2: He can
Step 3: I think I'll let him
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Re: Step Question

Postby avaneesh912 » Fri Mar 18, 2016 5:15 am

I would say if one becomes 2 and 2 becomes 4 and if you are lucky to be still not drinking, better do a thorough 4th and 5th again. Because by that time you are BSC (Bad Sh* Crazy).
Show him, from your own experience, how the peculiar mental condition surrounding that first drink prevents normal functioning of the will power (Alcoholics Anonymous, Page 92)
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Re: Step Question

Postby Brock » Fri Mar 18, 2016 8:14 am

A former sponsor of mine would have me do a step 4 and 5 if a new character defect came up or if I realized I had left something out in my first step 4 even if a lot of time had elapsed since I had done step 4. Others say you handle new defects with step 10 instead. Which is right?

As I said earlier, my feeling is that something we may have left out in the original step 4, wasn't put in usually because at that time it didn't seem like a big deal. Then as we grow in AA spiritually, our sense of right and wrong becomes more refined, we find ourselves thinking of smaller stuff and regretting it. But I don't see the need for a complete step 4 & 5, we can instead sit with someone and just say what's on our mind, if it now seems necessary we make amends to the person as well. I have actually said things in front of a group, and heard others do so as well.

For me the things I handle in 10 are the day to day stuff, things if I don't do now I will regret later. I have had to look for people like security guards because I told them to F off or something, then felt so uncomfortable I had to go back and apologize, also accepting too much change when the cashier makes a mistake and things like that.

D'oh made a point I like earlier he said -
I was Co Chair at my 2nd Commitment Group, when I finally realized that step 6 and 7 were actually steps, not just wishing or thinking I didn't have defects.

For me these defects might include things like judging others, and a short silent prayer each time I find myself doing it, and asking for it to be removed, works very well. I even think if I have done what is asked in 4, 5, and then 9 on a particular issue, and it is still weighing on my mind and holding me back, then I am guilty of the character defect of not forgiving myself and moving on, so again 6 & 7 sorts that out.

It's nice that a simple question on a step from the OP could develop to a discussion on all of them, e-AA at it's best.
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Re: Step Question

Postby Spirit Flower » Fri Mar 18, 2016 8:38 am

I suppose this is what I meant by doing more than 1 step 4/5:

Then as we grow in AA spiritually, our sense of right and wrong becomes more refined, we find ourselves thinking of smaller stuff and regretting it. But I don't see the need for a complete step 4 & 5, we can instead sit with someone and just say what's on our mind, if it now seems necessary we make amends to the person as well.


Also, dysfunctional family stuff keeps needing to be unpacked a deeper and deeper levels. PTSD acquired in childhood is part of my alcohol story; but also a problem that doesn't go to zero on the first step 4/5 (or maybe ever).

I agree with saying the drink problem is removed on the first step 4/5; at least for many people. Although for others maybe not: Dr Bob being one example of ongoing desire to drink.
...a score card reading zero...
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Re: Step Question

Postby clouds » Fri Mar 18, 2016 9:15 am

I think for me the compulsion to drink problem was removed after step three. Then I immediatly began work on step four with my sponsor guiding me along, because my understanding of the character defects was pretty lame. She had me start small by just making notes on a daily basis of things I did that seemd wrong to me. Then we'd discuss how those things were self pity, or from fear or pride. I often needed to be told what resentments were. I'd had no spiritual training, so this was how I learned to understand what my defects were. I came to see that a lot of what I did seemed ok on the surface but there were motivations underneath that were driving my actions and thoughts that were born from fear, pride, and dishonesy with myself. Step five was where fear fell from me. I was happy to be able to be honest about my wrongs with another person. It was the first time I had done that and it really lifted a burden from my shoulders that I didn't realize I had been carrying.
" Burn the idea into the consciousness of every man that he can get well regardless of anyone. The only condition is that he trust in God and clean house." page 98 A.A.
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Re: Step Question

Postby Noels » Sun Mar 27, 2016 2:50 pm

Hi guys. :) from my side I find 'working step 4 ' becomes a natural part of daily life. So does making amends. The easiest way I can explain is to compare with a clothing cupboard. If we kept our clothes in the same cupboard from the day we were born, by the age of 30 there will be no space for anything new. The same with our experiences, hurts and resentments - if we don't 'clean out ' these regularly we won't have space for new things to come in. New ideas, habits, etc. In the beginning it might be a pain to take regular inventory but it became a part of my life so it's now automatic and immediate most of the time .
Definitely worth the effort it takes in the beginning. Have an awesome weekend.
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Re: Step Question

Postby Cherylv » Wed Apr 13, 2016 7:50 pm

I just moved to a new state. I'll be looking for a sponsor shortly as I was in the process of doing steps 4&5. Not looking forward to it but Its required And I close to do them because I believe the process to be beneficial to me. Thanks for sharing everyone. It was very helpful.
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Re: Step Question

Postby Stepchild » Thu Apr 14, 2016 2:59 am

Cherylv wrote:I just moved to a new state. I'll be looking for a sponsor shortly as I was in the process of doing steps 4&5. Not looking forward to it but Its required And I close to do them because I believe the process to be beneficial to me. Thanks for sharing everyone. It was very helpful.


Welcome to the site Cheryl...And welcome to your new home. I don't think many of us looked forward to writing inventory...I know I didn't...But you are correct, it is required. Step 5 was an amazing experience for me....I got a lot out of that. It was after my fifth step I knew this program would work. And it has. The fifth step promises...

We pocket our pride and go to it, illuminating every twist of character, every dark cranny of the past. Once we have taken this step, withholding nothing, we are delighted. We can look the world in the eye. We can be alone at perfect peace and ease. Our fears fall from us. We begin to feel the nearness of our Creator. We may have had certain spiritual beliefs, but now we begin to have a spiritual experience. The feeling that the drink problem has disappeared will often come strongly. We feel we are on the Broad Highway, walking hand in hand with the Spirit of the Universe.
page 75

Look forward to hearing more from you.
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Re: Step Question

Postby Lali » Thu Apr 14, 2016 7:51 pm

Welcome, Cheryl. I don't believe I have seen any other posts from you. Feel free to start a new thread if you like.
Step 1: I can't
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Step 3: I think I'll let him
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