Steps 2 and 3

[Brock]

You are correct, I shouldn't have said a cure for alcoholism, but a cure for the body allergy, so that we could drink like non-alcoholics.

If one picks up a drink after decades of sobriety is it because they are no longer spiritually fit? I am hoping that staying away from that first drink will become non existing for me some day.

I would say that what I meant, was that a medical solution by which we could drink like non-alcoholics, is still of little use to us. I used to think if I was able to take a pill and be a non alcoholic, great I would have 3 – 4 drinks each evening, because 3-4 strong rum and cokes is what it took to put a smile on my face and forget my troubles. My wife is non alcoholic and a bottle of rum seems to last her months, no need for any drinks each evening unless a friend comes over, so I am different, I need something to change my mood, make me feel comfortable. And I found it thanks to AA, or the start of it anyway, building on that spiritual awakening I can now forget my troubles and have a smile on my face all day, I wouldn’t swap this for being able to drink because it’s free, doesn't damage my health, and I can do it all day.

You are right, if someone picks up after long sobriety they lost their spirituality, or quite possibly didn’t have much of it in the first place, (if they did they wouldn't loose it, they would enjoy it and protect it). Remember that we can, and some choose to, live with the barest of spirituality, and depend more on AA meetings and friends, as a sort of support to keep away from the first drink. But please believe me that those who do what is asked, and enlarge on the spiritual awakening, don’t think of or are tempted to drink, as promised the problem has been removed, it does not exist for us.


PS. I always like to add, because some might feel this spirituality means living like some holy roller, I have not found that to be the case, nobody knows how spiritual I am but me, (and maybe God), I like looking at pretty girls and just come over as a normal man, a happy normal man.

[Roberth]

I work in a field which I am surrounded by engineers and even they don’t complicate things as badly as alcoholics. I love all of the insight and preparation and understanding needed to take 2 steps that can actually be taken without a person even knowing they took them.
The day I told my wife to take me to a meeting or I am going to the liquor store. The obsession was in overdrive and I wanted to drink more than I could ever remember. She took me to a newcomers meeting where I hear my story coming out of someone else’s mouth. Hearing that I knew AA work for me and I made a commitment to keep coming to AA drunk, sober or crazy.
Something strange happened at that moment, the obsession disappeared.
When I called my sponsor and told him what happened his reply was good, now that I have taken the 2nd and 3rd steps we can get into my 4th.
With me it was that simple.. There was no research into my past beliefs, no investigation into what higher power I needed, just knowing something would work and letting it. I don’t know if that will change someday but for the past 26 years I keep coming and so far it has only been various combinations of sober and crazy.

[Blue Moon]

You are correct, I shouldn't have said a cure for alcoholism, but a cure for the body allergy, so that we could drink like non-alcoholics.

If one picks up a drink after decades of sobriety is it because they are no longer spiritually fit? I am hoping that staying away from that first drink will become non existing for me some day.

IMO a cure for alcoholism would require at least 3 things to be developed:
1. Rewiring of genetics to negate any predisposition to alcohol dependency.
2. Modifying body chemistry to remove the abnormal reaction (AKA allergy) to alcohol.
3. Altering the brain's dopamine pathways to eliminate alcohol dependency, possibly regrow the prefrontal cortex which gets shrunk by alcohol (thus making the alcoholic more primitive, less able to use rational thought re drinking or other behaviours).

Quitting drinking alone starts the brain working on #3 for.itself. Good luck waiting for science to get around to #s 1 & 2.

[Tosh]

Getting back to Step 2. In order for me to come to believe that a HP can bring me to sanity, I must believe that a HP has the power to do anything, whether I perceive it as good or bad. If I could fully understand my HP, I would be an equal to my HP. In that is the case, my HP could just as easily take me back to insanity for any reason that I cannot comprehend.

Sorry for the rambling but my alcoholic mind is a mess.

The Step says 'Came to believe...', not 'We believed right now...'. It's a process. Use the Steps as your Higher Power.

When I was in enough pain I put aside old ideas and just followed the suggestions in the Big Book; I did my Step 3 with my sponsor (I am an atheist/non theist/confused*) and immediately got working on my Step 4.

Step 4 is really a test of faith; same goes for Step 5. Everything I did before was just dithering and procrastination.

It's a program of action, not a program of beliefs - take the actions - and the answers may follow.

*Depends on what time of day it is.

[Frihed89]

I found a faith in God and to do God's will through AA. I didn't have to fake it until I made it, nor did the belief and practice centered on my faith happen over night. It came through a conversion experience, actually. I was walking home at night through the snow when, for no good reason, everything around me was filled up with a yellow hue and the thought "I never have to drink again" came into my mind, which previous to that had been cluttered with a series of equations I was trying to solve at work that night. I had been sober for a few years when this happened, but things in my life had not been going especially well.

Since that time, I have come to believe two other things: first, I found out that my faith is rewarded by action and, second, that God's will for me is always right in front of my eyes. I really don't need to know anything else to live a happy life.

[Theo50]

You are correct, I shouldn't have said a cure for alcoholism, but a cure for the body allergy, so that we could drink like non-alcoholics.

If one picks up a drink after decades of sobriety is it because they are no longer spiritually fit? I am hoping that staying away from that first drink will become non existing for me some day.

IMO a cure for alcoholism would require at least 3 things to be developed:
1. Rewiring of genetics to negate any predisposition to alcohol dependency.
2. Modifying body chemistry to remove the abnormal reaction (AKA allergy) to alcohol.
3. Altering the brain's dopamine pathways to eliminate alcohol dependency, possibly regrow the prefrontal cortex which gets shrunk by alcohol (thus making the alcoholic more primitive, less able to use rational thought re drinking or other behaviours).

Quitting drinking alone starts the brain working on #3 for.itself. Good luck waiting for science to get around to #s 1 & 2.

I do not expect science to find a cure for alcoholism in my lifetime, but not being open to the possibility that a cure or better yet, the prevention of all "defects" of the brain do not already exist in the universe is close mindedness in my opinion. If and when this prevention and or "cure" is discovered and becomes readily available on our planet Earth, would be, in my mind, could relieve the burden of the pain and suffering of all alcoholics.

Unless you think that there are some benefit in living through the pain and suffering of alcoholism and all other "defects' of the brain, then i would think that you would agree with me.
Just think of how much good has been done with the vaccinations that we currently have access to on this Earth.

Unfortunately raised as a Catholic, it is still ingrained in my brain that many "good" things are only achieved through guilt, pain and suffering, I could actually be swayed to think that an alcoholic must suffer through their illness prior to getting to peace and harmony through God. If that were the case, a scientific prevention and or cure would not considered be a "good" thing.

[BillyRocks]

HI I'm guy and I'm an alcoholic,

Being new to AA for the last 7 weeks, Still no sponser but im going to start asking shortly. trying to come to terms with these steps2 3.
This conversation ha given me much food for thought, thank you all.

My question is......
I have some faith, I mean someone/something has kept me alive this far and over the years have done terrible things to my body with alcohol and drugs. But i'm not sure on the implementation?

So not so much the who, but the how....? So far ive just been looking up and talking...? and so far so good....so i guess that's good and I guess i'm sober so well that's good?

Im a bit confused and I truly hope this isn't offensive.

GT

[avaneesh912]

Nope, no offense. We have the big book and people who worked the steps before. While you are searching for a sponsor, you can read Bill Story and see how as a young war veteran rises up as a stock analyst but to lose it all due to alcoholism and you could see how he runs into an old friend who shares with him what he did to get sober. Also he was helped by a doctor who shares with him the facts about alcoholism. Fatal obsession that takes us back to drinking and the craving part keeps us drinking. You could see all the 12 steps from the middle of the story.

[tomsteve]

I have some faith, I mean someone/something has kept me alive this far and over the years have done terrible things to my body with alcohol and drugs. But i'm not sure on the implementation?

So not so much the who, but the how....? So far ive just been looking up and talking...? and so far so good....so i guess that's good and I guess i'm sober so well that's good?

Im a bit confused and I truly hope this isn't offensive.

GT

not offensive at all,billy.
reads a bit like i was. i had a belief in a God, but as far as helping me....welp...there was too much going on in the world so i had to keep my load off of Him.
yyeeeeaahhhh- that got me to the doors of AA.
i changed my mind there. i just had a belief in something greater than me to help- something not of this world. theres a line in the BB that helped,too:
"Do I now believe, or am I even willing to believe, that there is a Power greater than myself?" As soon as a man can say that he does believe, or is willing to believe, we emphatically assure him that he is on his way. It has been repeatedly proven among us that upon this simple cornerstone a wonderfully effective spiritual structure can be built.

i had the belief so that was a start. the results started showing as i worked the steps. i started having "things" happen that truly couldnt be explained any other way. like how someone at an open topic meeting brought up a topic that was on my mind?? how someone could say something at a meeting that hit exactly what was on my mind??
how could someone from AA pop up in a store(just regular shopping- not there for alcohol) i was in when i was a little boggled in my melon??

[Mickholic]

Wow, great discussion. It seeems to me that these three simple steps often get complicated to sch an extent that some people never get past them.

My experience, step one was a no brainer. Step 2 was accomplished through a willingness to believe based on my experience that no human power had been able to save me to date, and plenty had been tried. I took step two with no belief.

Same with step three, the decision. This manifested in child like efforts at prayer to what ever might be there, and a decision to take action on the rest of the steps as a pathway to finding this Power. Still no belief.

Step 4 I did with my sponsor one Saturday. Still no belief.

Step 5 I did with my sponsor the next day. That was the point at which I began to have a spiritual experience and the consciousness of my belief came to me. I felt it, I realised that the big book and what people had been telling me was the truth. Now I had a faith based in personal experience.

Looking back I can see the Power was at work in my life even though I was unaware. At each step He gave me what I needed to move on to the next step. He removed the obsession, as far as I can tell, the minute I sincerely began to seek Him.