I really need help/advice please

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Re: I really need help/advice please

Postby SoberInMI » Wed May 03, 2017 10:24 am

avaneesh912 wrote:
The former I don't agree with because plenty of AA members slip-slide along for a while. So where is their Grace?


I am sharing my experience. When I came in without fully understanding the fatal nature of this I was dilly dallying and was suffering. Then my HP lead me to a proper understanding and I was able to work toward the permanent solution. Even today I am grateful for that grace that gave me the willingness to pursue a solution. Even before I entered the fellowship, I realized I had to change and can't continue like this any longer. So my HP was at play always.


Perhaps. But until the "fog of alcoholism" lifts, we can not think clearly enough to establish/reestablish a spiritual connection with our higher power and that can't happen until we stop using all mood altering substances.
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Re: I really need help/advice please

Postby PaigeB » Wed May 03, 2017 11:17 am

halh wrote:I feel so bad but so inconsistent in everything I am,feel, do.

I am 28 and about to graduate university but I feel so empty. Recently I have been drinking 2 bottles of wine a night and I just feel so lost in life. I cannot imagine not drinking, I hate myself when I am not drunk.

I have no meaningful relationships or friendships anymore and just feel alone. I guess I just want to talk to someone who perhaps feels the same and who can offer some support?
Thanks

Hi Halh ~ I hope I can help. I DO know how you feel. I came to start my Inner Journey one night, alone in the dark. It was nearing 2 am and I had to go to work at 8am. I knew I should go to bed, but I wanted "just one more". I shut off the TV so I would not start watching a show that "I had to see the end of" and I shut off the lights hoping that I would finally get tired enough to fall asleep or pass out without too much thinking. I went to the refrigerator... I grabbed 2 beers and opened them both. I went back to sit in the dark. There I was... so damn addicted that I could not have "just one" even in my own home - knowing full well that I had to work in just a few hours! I had the sickening thought that I was never going to get better... that it would always be just like this - or worse. I would surely die drunk and alone of an ugly liver death.

I sat there and drank and ran through the options. Obviously, I could go on drinking to the bitter end, but there was so much life I still wanted to live! I knew that to continue drinking was just slow suicide. I did not like the idea of going to treatment - having someone tell me how to live my life... I was I grandmother for Crise sake, I was just fine living life - it was just that I couldn't quit drinking! AA came to mind and I had been to meetings long ago... I got drunk again, so obviously THAT didn't work... but try as I might, I could not banish the idea of those happy people sitting around a table having coffee and sharing their deep inner thoughts and actions. That was a long time ago, but the words from the book came to my mind like I had read them just the day before...

"Pitiful And Incomprehensible Demoralization." (PAIN) God, that is what I had.

I called the AA hotline for a few days and scoped out some of the meeting places that I had been directed too, but for one reason or another I did not go in... I continued to drink for a few days or a week before I finally made it across that threshold. And I found that I wanted what those happy people had. I was willing to DO what they did so I could have what they had. And I haven't had to take a drink in over 7 years!

Here is our book... PAID is on page 30, read a few paragraphs and see if you can identify with any of it.
http://www.aa.org/pages/en_US/read-the- ... traditions

Here is how to find a meeting or hotline in your neighborhood. Don't be afraid. People are almost too nice! :wink:
http://www.aa.org/pages/en_US/find-aa-resources

I hope you find what I have found - a LIFE that is vastly better than I ever expected! See you around the tables!
If I'm not able to say how I'm working my program today, then I'm not working my program.
The e-AA Group's 7th Tradition link: www.e-aa.org/group_seventh.php
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Re: I really need help/advice please

Postby Reborn » Wed May 03, 2017 11:42 am

page 103...

After all, our problems were of our own making. Bottles were only a symbol. Besides, we have stopped fighting anybody or anything. We have to!

If you can just put down the bottle and your life improves you're probably not an alcoholic. In my experience when an alcoholic puts down the drink he goes bat S*** crazy. So saying that alcohol is the problem is absolutely wrong...if we don't treat the internal condition we will drink again eventually. Its is vital to get connected in steps 1 through 3...but

page 63-64

Next we launched out on a course of vigorous action, the first step of which is a personal housecleaning, which many of us had never attempted. Though our decision was a vital and crucial step, it could have little permanent effect unless at once followed by a strenuous effort to face, and to be rid of, the things in ourselves which had been blocking us. Our liquor was but a symptom. So we had to get down to causes and conditions.

I know that after I worked the 4th step and gave up my victim status in steps 5-9 the obsession to drink left me. In AA we are NOT treating the affect alcohol has on us...we are treating the spiritual malady...the cause and conditions.
We have recovered, and have been given the power to help others. BB pg 132
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Re: I really need help/advice please

Postby SoberInMI » Wed May 03, 2017 12:08 pm

Reborn wrote: In AA we are NOT treating the affect alcohol has on us...we are treating the spiritual malady...the cause and conditions.


For all of you "detractors"who want to be honest and of maximum service to God, we address "causes and conditions" starting in step 4 and that is found on pg. 64. (A few have mentioned step 4, but not that causes and conditions preceded it - it wouldn't support their position). Addressing our drinking is step 1. And spirituality begins in step 2.
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Re: I really need help/advice please

Postby avaneesh912 » Wed May 03, 2017 4:58 pm

Addressing our drinking is step 1.


Dont know what you mean by addressing. We realize the powerlessness. Lack of Power is the dilemma, so we start seeking that power.
Show him, from your own experience, how the peculiar mental condition surrounding that first drink prevents normal functioning of the will power (Alcoholics Anonymous, Page 92)
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Re: I really need help/advice please

Postby Blue Moon » Wed May 03, 2017 4:59 pm

SoberInMI wrote:But until the "fog of alcoholism" lifts, we can not think clearly enough to establish/reestablish a spiritual connection with our higher power and that can't happen until we stop using all mood altering substances.


Where is this written in any AA literature?
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Re: I really need help/advice please

Postby avaneesh912 » Wed May 03, 2017 5:21 pm

I know a guy from michigan who said his sponsor made him call every other member under his wing to ask their 1st step experience and document it and only then he would let them work the reminder of the steps. I ran away from him and luckily I moved and never had to run to that guy anymore.
Show him, from your own experience, how the peculiar mental condition surrounding that first drink prevents normal functioning of the will power (Alcoholics Anonymous, Page 92)
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Re: I really need help/advice please

Postby SoberInMI » Wed May 03, 2017 7:16 pm

Blue Moon wrote:
SoberInMI wrote:But until the "fog of alcoholism" lifts, we can not think clearly enough to establish/reestablish a spiritual connection with our higher power and that can't happen until we stop using all mood altering substances.


Where is this written in any AA literature?


We should know this from experience. Otherwise, the Akron/Detroit Pamphlet talks about the fog and bog of alcoholism.

In the place I was thinking of, the pamphlet refers to the "bog" of alcoholism:

So we finally came to the fork in the road. We either honestly admitted that we had a problem or we continued sinking deeper and deeper into the bog of alcoholism, resulting in loss of mind or death. Until the admission is made, to ourselves, that our alcoholic problem has gone our to control we have on inspiration to stop drinking. But once that admission has been made the was is cleared.


But elsewhere it refers to am "alcoholic fog."

Before long you will have a "baby" of your own. Then you will really have something to live for. You will worry about him, you will try to keep sober for him, you will guide him to the best of your ability, you will almost suffer with him as he comes out of his alcoholic fog. In doing this you will be giving of yourself, and you will find new joy in living.


A GUIDE to the TWELVE STEPS of ALCOHOLICS ANONYMOUS :
(Moderator edit - no links but it was silkworth dot net)
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Re: I really need help/advice please

Postby positrac » Thu May 04, 2017 2:48 am

Is this a thread about AA or some side show political debate to undermined us into believing something else?
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Re: I really need help/advice please

Postby avaneesh912 » Thu May 04, 2017 3:50 am

I would like to hear more about "addressing step 1". All along I have only heard of words like realization, admittance, concluding...this is the first time I am hearing "Addressing step 1" and then moving on to other steps.
Show him, from your own experience, how the peculiar mental condition surrounding that first drink prevents normal functioning of the will power (Alcoholics Anonymous, Page 92)
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Re: I really need help/advice please

Postby positrac » Thu May 04, 2017 5:30 am

avaneesh912 wrote:I would like to hear more about "addressing step 1". All along I have only heard of words like realization, admittance, concluding...this is the first time I am hearing "Addressing step 1" and then moving on to other steps.


I saw no burning bushes and or earth shattering things happened when I realized I was powerless over alcohol. I was relieved and scared at the same time because the life I had known had just crumbled down. Once I could see that it would be ok and that I needed to follow the steps, take the suggested guidance from older members who have more sobriety. I learned to stick with the winners and this means the people who had what I wanted. I wanted happiness, I wanted to stop looking over my shoulders and I wanted sobriety and I was willing to go to any length to find what I needed.

I went to 90 meetings in 90 days and with the admittance of step one I could move onto the other steps. For me the steps weren't always easy and yet they were enlightening on who I was when I drank.

These are my points of my life in sobriety and everyone has different experiences and we have all come to understand that we are powerless over alcohol.

best of success on your journey
Last edited by positrac on Thu May 04, 2017 10:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: I really need help/advice please

Postby avaneesh912 » Thu May 04, 2017 6:27 am

For me the realization happened outside of the fellowship so when I came in I was seeking for a solution. And when someone elaborated the process I could subscribe to the process and gain confidence. I agree, different people come in with different reasons, but most, in the back of our mind, we must of come to a point, there is this feeling that we are different from others (normies).
Show him, from your own experience, how the peculiar mental condition surrounding that first drink prevents normal functioning of the will power (Alcoholics Anonymous, Page 92)
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Re: I really need help/advice please

Postby Brock » Thu May 04, 2017 6:30 am

I would like to hear more about "addressing step 1". All along I have only heard of words like realization, admittance, concluding...

“Addressing” is not the most commonly used word, but we shouldn't worry about the wording. In places like England where I went to school it was used in day to day conversation, mainly by so called 'upper class' boys in the boarding school. It basically just means doing something about a problem or situation, so an Englishman with a flat tire might get out of his car and say 'let us address this flat tire situation,' an American might just say 'let's fix this f...ing tire,' same thing different words.

In my experience those who grasped this program easiest, did not really have to be asked if they admitted, or realized, or concluded that they were powerless. Those are the ones who have tried to stop drinking with all their willpower, usually multiple times, not only do they realize their life is unmanageable, but they also know their will power won't work. In cases like those, a sponsor who holds them back from moving into the solution, while he tries to satisfy himself that they are ready, is doing more harm than good. They should be able to judge a persons level of desperation without hardly asking a question. In the early days when low bottom cases were all they treated, I have seen it written that after a couple days, and the 'fog' had lifted and the jitters died down, Dr. Bob would simply ask 'do you believe in God.' In other words no discussion on one or two, he knew the person was ready for three.

But these days I see many who are not sure, usually because someone close to them said they had a problem, but they hadn't admitted that to themselves. When they come to a few meetings and then we don't see them, some of the members get all worried and worked up, but I prefer to just say a silent prayer that they will be back. And if they do come back, in the vast majority of cases they need no further convincing about steps one and two, because that is what they sorted out, (or addressed), for themselves while they were absent from the meetings.
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Re: I really need help/advice please

Postby avaneesh912 » Thu May 04, 2017 8:57 am

“Addressing” is not the most commonly used word, but we shouldn't worry about the wording.


There is a school of thought that the newcomer must become willing. Yesterday I was talking to a guy and he was sharing how he sponsors people. Before he walks them through the book, he asks them to call him everyday and puts them on daily reflection readings as a form of prayer and meditation and if he survives the first month, he then sits with them to talk about powerlessness and un-manageability. And when the newcomer is convinced he then hands them 4th step worksheet.

I have heard other exercises. One extreme was the newcomer should set up an appointment with every member of the clan and talk and document the 1st step experience and Only then this head will allow them to move on.
Show him, from your own experience, how the peculiar mental condition surrounding that first drink prevents normal functioning of the will power (Alcoholics Anonymous, Page 92)
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Re: I really need help/advice please

Postby tomsteve » Thu May 04, 2017 2:47 pm

Is he not, even in his best moments, a producer of confusion rather than harmony?
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