Too many meetings

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Re: Too many meetings

Postby Noels » Fri Jul 08, 2016 3:06 am

Goooood morning beautiful people :D I feel that I need to share this as ive heard it (and is guilty of having used it myself) in the past. I will point it out shortly but before I do I need to say this :
I don't think its that some advice and suggestions given are wrong advice. Its possibly more a situation of " the right advice / suggestions given to the wrong person ". In my experience :wink: there is definitely a difference between a low-bottom alcoholic and a high-bottom alcoholic. YES, the program works for both low and high bottom alcoholics BUT the process is/could be different.

Then to come back to what I have been guilty of myself. These words :never return and die or used before by all of us, me included, words like " alcohol kills " or " this is a matter of life and death " etc etc

You see, with someone like me these words have no effect whatsoever for the simple reason that to me DEATH IS A FACT, NOT A FEAR. I cant "slip" death twenty bucks to come back later BUT I CAN choose how I want to live my life until death comes. Yes, alcohol kills. So could tripping over the dog, falling off the ladder, being in a car accident, bumping my head ...... Therefore I rather concentrate on HOW I LIVE NOW therefore I choose to live each day sober.

I don't quite know why I felt to bring this up in this particular thread but here it is for whatever reason it should be here.

Have an amazingly awesome weekend and chat again later.

mwah xxx Noels
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Re: Too many meetings

Postby Stepchild » Fri Jul 08, 2016 9:00 am

Ravensgrl wrote:I am on the fifth step.


I guess if I had any suggestion...It would go along with the book.

When we decide who is to hear our story, we waste no time. We have a written inventory and we are prepared for a long talk.
pg 75

Just keep moving forward Ravensgrl.
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Re: Too many meetings

Postby Reborn » Fri Jul 08, 2016 9:33 am

Fellowship is important and meetings is where we find that but fellowship does not keep me sober...following the directions in the Big Book does. I tell my sponsees to go to as many meetings as you can but more importantly when you lay your head down at night...when you are all alone...ask yourself honestly..."what did I do to move forward in my recovery today?" If the only answer you can come up with is "I went to a meeting" that is a half measure and those avail us nothing. Raven I am excited for you...the 5th step is where I really felt the presence of God for the first time in my life...keep moving forward and great things will come to pass!
We have recovered, and have been given the power to help others. BB pg 132
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Re: Too many meetings

Postby emeraldg » Sat Jul 09, 2016 4:24 pm

I have yet to reply to a discussion on this forum yet, but reading through this really hit home. Thank you so much for posting this Raven. Brock and Noels have a great head on their shoulders, and so many times on here their advice has helped me to see the distortions in my thinking. I will offer what my experience has been, but I will not offer advice because in the past when I have done that, even with my sponsees, it has likely been simply to make myself feel better and justify my own sick patterns and behaviors. I believe there is no "one size fits all" approach to anything, and my old regimental ways have likely scared newcomers off. It didn't work. And it was only to make my own self feel more in control of people, places and things. It was cult-like, sick thinking. I hope this can be even the slightest helpful to you, and if not maybe to someone else. And if not, that's great too.

I came into the program believing I was a high bottom drunk. I still had a husband,my health, beautiful children, a house, a job, an education and a car. Once I was sober for a year, I took on sponsees, which in hindsight was detrimental to them and myself. I gossiped about them and was always on the hunt for drama. I would preach to others. I always had to feel "better than". I was still so sick despite my constant attendance at meetings.

I then sought contact with a god as I understood him. I really had not done that. I began to repeat the steps and incorporate them into my life. I really had not done that either. And then, my reality hit me like a mack truck once I stood before my god with my reality as it was. I had hurt SO many people, and being physically dry and attending meetings did not change that. By the time I took honest stock of myself a couple of years into the program, my husband was finished with me, my physical ill health from alcohol abuse had caught up with me, my sponsees were scared and turned off by me and my children and colleagues resented me. It was just me and god and the reality of my sickness. My bottom was actually very, very low. I am literally THE LAST person who should ever be telling anyone else how many meetings to attend or how to run their lives. As you can see, this is where that led me.

I needed to experiences those losses. I needed to learn the hard way. I had to rebuild from nothing. I am positive that's not everyone's experience.
Now, I attend daily meetings because I want to. Because I feel better afterwards. Because it's like exercising to me and eating well. Because it is a place where I can actually give something back to people without sucking them dry. I can just be quiet and listen to others. I am speaking for me only, that going to a lot of meetings allows me to give quality, reciprocal relationships toward my loved ones, friends and colleagues who are not alcoholics/in the program, even if it is somewhat limited. Perhaps when I am at a place where my relations have been restored with my loved ones outside of the program, I will have more balance with my time. And that is perfectly OK for you to seek that. Balance is healthy, but this alcoholic has not been very healthy. Brock says it so well that it is not all about the meetings. Soldiers at war stay sober without attending meetings. This soldier is not strong enough for battle just yet.

God bless you
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Re: Too many meetings

Postby Noels » Sat Jul 09, 2016 11:58 pm

Wow Emerald that is a beautiful, honest share. Thank you for that. Keep doing what you're doing because the change is visible.
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Re: Too many meetings

Postby Feeya » Sun Jul 10, 2016 4:03 am

Thank you emerald for sharing that and reminding me how important my relationship with my HP truly is!
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Re: Too many meetings

Postby positrac » Mon Jul 11, 2016 9:34 am

Brock wrote:No need to get your draws in a twist posi, you basically told the young lady what her story should be, that she went to any lengths for a fix and so forth, and she replied that she did not. She also said - “When I hear things like this, it makes me think this isn't the place for me at all, that I have to be a hardcore alcoholic before I can really get the program.” Well you can call us “experts” if you wish, and if trying to reassure someone, that there is a welcoming place for her in the fellowship is playing expert, then I plead guilty.
I am not the AA guru and I know what works for me and what doesn't because of my past experience and eventually you will have this same knowledge.

There are no guru's here, and like you say she will get knowledge of what works for her, and others here don't just tell people what worked for them. When I came folks added in a heaping load of encouragement and hope for the future as well, I try to do the same and so does the book.



No twist with me because I am me and I know me real well.

What my point is that you can BS people into feeling sorry for them and missing the whole point is that if they need AA then go, But don't come up here making excuses and then saying it is people like me who make you not wanna attend meetings...... Maybe the truth is too close to home? Or if we say something that would allow for enabling then we get the black eye of excuses for the relapse they had.

Tough love in AA is not always comfortable and it can keep people sober who are really interested in staying sober; Others will get a big resentment and go get drunk and it will mean they aren't ready to get clean yet.
You must live your life from beginning to end: No one else can do it for you.
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Re: Too many meetings

Postby positrac » Mon Jul 11, 2016 9:52 am

Lali wrote:I don't think it is anybody's place to break down how Raven spends her 24 hours. It's really no one's business.

Bottom line is this: She came up on here wanting us to decide her meetings and that she was bored. Don't do that because that is wrong and that is what the sponsor is for. If they don't communicate then find another sponsor. I also offered some suggestions on looking at what she could do to find personal relief from her situation and that even was pushed back.

I have no issues with Raven, except she should take responsibility with her actions and lay off the site on her time and what she doesn't have. Reminder to us all: We have free will to do as we please and if she needs the overtime I just hope for her sake at whatever level of drunk she might be; that she is prepared for burnout and what they could lead to in the end

She is not ready to remain sober and she doesn't have to listen to me or if there are others out on line who make points she doesn't like because I made assumptions. Door is always open is all I know and that is one size fits all.

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Re: Too many meetings

Postby Tosh » Mon Jul 11, 2016 12:03 pm

positrac wrote:Reminder to us all: We have free will to do as we please


I always wonder why people who were powerless over alcohol still claim to have freewill? If I had freewill I certainly wouldn't have came to A.A., I would've just chosen to stop drinking, or chose to moderate. But I couldn't, because I didn't have freewill. Neither did I choose to go to A.A. meetings; my suffering drove me into A.A.. I didn't chose to get a sponsor and work the steps either; again I didn't have a choice (other than to drink and die, which isn't really much of a choice).

Even the Big Book infers a lack of freewill in many places (They are not at fault (etc)).

Believing that everyone has freewill means we can judge them to be making the wrong choices. We alcoholics should know better! But maybe some of us don't have the freewill to see this? :lol:
Come, come, whoever you are. Wanderer, worshiper, lover of leaving. It doesn't matter. Ours is not a caravan of despair. Come, even if you have broken your vows a thousand times. Come, yet again, come, come.” Rumi (No sniggering from the sex addicts)
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Re: Too many meetings

Postby Stepchild » Mon Jul 11, 2016 12:38 pm

Tosh wrote:
positrac wrote:Reminder to us all: We have free will to do as we please


I always wonder why people who were powerless over alcohol still claim to have freewill? If I had freewill I certainly wouldn't have came to A.A., I would've just chosen to stop drinking, or chose to moderate. But I couldn't, because I didn't have freewill. Neither did I choose to go to A.A. meetings; my suffering drove me into A.A.. I didn't chose to get a sponsor and work the steps either; again I didn't have a choice (other than to drink and die, which isn't really much of a choice).

Even the Big Book infers a lack of freewill in many places (They are not at fault (etc)).

Believing that everyone has freewill means we can judge them to be making the wrong choices. We alcoholics should know better! But maybe some of us don't have the freewill to see this? :lol:


That's an interesting take on it....Not one you hear very much. The third step decision refers to turning our lives and our will over to the "care" of God....Not giving it away completely. On page 85 they make it pretty clear we still have it.

We can exercise our will power along this line all we wish. It is the proper use of the will.
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Re: Too many meetings

Postby Noels » Mon Jul 11, 2016 12:52 pm

:lol: we have free will til the day we die. We just get to a point where our will automatically aligns with our Higher Power and we don't wish to go it on our will anymore. :wink:
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Re: Too many meetings

Postby ezdzit247 » Mon Jul 11, 2016 1:15 pm

Tosh wrote:
positrac wrote:Reminder to us all: We have free will to do as we please


I always wonder why people who were powerless over alcohol still claim to have freewill? If I had freewill I certainly wouldn't have came to A.A., I would've just chosen to stop drinking, or chose to moderate. But I couldn't, because I didn't have freewill. Neither did I choose to go to A.A. meetings; my suffering drove me into A.A.. I didn't chose to get a sponsor and work the steps either; again I didn't have a choice (other than to drink and die, which isn't really much of a choice).


This quote from a book called “The Heart of Man”, by author and psychologist Erich Fromm resonates with my ESH:

“....Our capacity to choose changes constantly with our practice of life. The longer we continue to make the wrong decisions, the more our heart hardens; the more often we make the right decision, the more our heart softens - or better perhaps, comes alive......Each step in life which increases my self-confidence, my integrity, my courage, my conviction also increases my capacity to choose the desirable alternative, until eventually it becomes more difficult for me to choose the undesirable rather than the desirable action. On the other hand, each act of surrender and cowardice weakens me, opens the path for more acts of surrender, and eventually freedom is lost. Between the extreme of when I can no longer do a wrong act and the extreme when I have lost my freedom to right action, there are innumerable degrees of freedom of choice.


I think what Fromm said above is similar to what Bill W. said in the Big Book. We get a daily reprieve from the effects of the disease of alcoholism, including the loss of power of choice, by working the program and applying AA's principles to all our affairs, one day at a time. I'm keenly aware that whatever "power of choice" and other blessings I've enjoyed from this practice can be forfeited by picking up that next drink. I've seen it happen to other members way too many times over the years. So today. while I still have the power to choose, I choose not to pick up that next drink.
“To laugh often and much; to win the respect of intelligent people and the affection of children...to leave the world a better place...to know even one life has breathed easier because you have lived. This is to have succeeded.” -- Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Re: Too many meetings

Postby tyg » Mon Jul 11, 2016 11:59 pm

However many meetings you decide to make. I highly suggest to get through the 12 Steps asap and have a home group, always show up, be in service there and participate in the Group Conscious meetings. Greet & welcome others at meetings you do attend.

I believe that I can be powerless after the first drink, but also feel empowered to choose not to take that first one. The first drink is a choice, the second one not so much.
If an alcoholic had a choice not to pick up that first drink, why would there be a need for AA? Alcoholism would not exist because we would all have that Power to maintain abstinence. We may be able to stay sober for awhile on willpower, knowledge, meeting attendance, bad health, family and sponsors help etc., but that only lasts for so long. The Steps are the AA program and help us break free from the bondage of alcohol & self. The fellowship offers a place to be of service and help others.

There are more places.. but these are some of my favorites were Alcoholics Anonymous talks about the inability to choose not to pick up that first drink
"If, when you honestly want to, you find you cannot quit entirely (the obsession), or if when drinking, you have little control over the amount you take (the allergy), you are probably alcoholic. If that be the case, you may be suffering from an illness which only a spiritual experience will conquer. Pg 44

"For those who are unable to drink moderately the question is how to stop altogether. Fast forward a few sentences:There was a tremendous urge to cease forever. Yet we found it impossible. This is the baffling feature of alcoholism as we know it - this utter inability to leave it alone, no matter how great the necessity or the wish." Pg 34

"Once more: The alcoholic at certain times has no effective mental defense against the first drink. Except in a few rare cases, neither he nor any other human being can provide such a defense. His defense must come from a Higher Power. Pg. 43 "


:D :( :D Well Folks, we've hit 5 pages looks like it's time to wrap up and lock it. :D :( :D
~The secret to the AA program is the first three words on page 112~
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