Relapse.

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Re: Relapse.

Postby Brock » Mon Jun 20, 2016 3:28 pm

And there are AA type books, written for people who have religious training and spiritual belief already wont you please send me a list - on PM if necessary if it wont be allowed on the site?

We got into some trouble for quoting daily meditation a while back, quite understandably because it got out of hand with some people objecting to it, the same person also has two books, Breathing Under Water: Spirituality and the Twelve Steps, and a companion journal by Richard Rohr O.F.M. Both can be found for about $10 each in kindle versions from Amazon, and we can read a sample of what it's about before purchasing.
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Re: Relapse.

Postby Reborn » Mon Jun 20, 2016 3:34 pm

I'm not going to quote anyone...I've been warned by a moderator not to do so...so I'm not going there. However just because people relapse and have since the beginning of AA does not mean its part of the deal. I know alot of old timers that have been sober for decades without relapse. It takes what it takes for each one of us to finally submit...and be willing to make use of what the program offers. Show me someone who has relapsed...especially a person who has been "working the program" for any length of time...and I will show you someone who is NOT practicing these principles in all their affairs. Something is missing...plain and simple. I want to make something clear here...I'm not looking for an argument...but it is an off message to tell newcomers that relapse is part of recovery...you are either in recovery or you aren't. If you relapse that means you started drinking again...one day...two days...one year...it doesn't matter. If you drink again you are practicing in the disease of alcoholism...so how is an active alcoholic in recovery? I'm not saying these things to beat anyone up about their relapse...I'm simply saying if we make use of what AA offers we don't have to go down that road...I don't know makes sense to me.
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Re: Relapse.

Postby D'oh » Mon Jun 20, 2016 4:43 pm

Relapse is not part of recovery.

Then why in the Book is it written, "Try some Controlled Drinking," Even more than once? That it may be worth a Bad Case of the Jitters for true knowledge of our condition?

I know this might come off as harsh but I don't believe in relapse...its a preconceived drunk....a lurking notion..."I'm gonna try this one more time...just to see." I am in no way saying that people who relapse should be ashamed or be considered weak...alcoholics drink alcohol. This is why we must concede to our inner most selves that we are alcoholics...


I may come off harsh, but that thinking isn't going to protect you from a Relapse, but only delete any chance of another Recovery. I may never know what this "Road of Happy Destiney" may hold for me. But I know the Doors of AA are always open if I need them.
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Re: Relapse.

Postby Brock » Mon Jun 20, 2016 5:18 pm

Then why in the Book is it written, "Try some Controlled Drinking," Even more than once? That it may be worth a Bad Case of the Jitters for true knowledge of our condition?

It is written there after a long explanation about the fact that many people try to convince themselves that they are not alcoholic, the few lines before those you quoted explains very clearly like this -
...      We do not like to pronounce any individual as alcoholic, but you can quickly diagnose yourself, step over to the nearest barroom and try some controlled drinking. Try to drink and stop abruptly. Try it more than once. It will not take long for you to decide, if you are honest with yourself about it. It may be worth a bad case of jitters if you get a full knowledge of your condition.

And if you can't have a couple and stop, well you get a full knowledge of your condition, you are an alcoholic !

And I agree 100% with Reborn as I expect any recovered alcoholic would, having had my share of slips they were not something that suddenly came to mind, they were pretty well premeditated. That was before I did the work and lived the way the program suggests, although they speak of a broad highway, we can tell quite clearly when we are out of our lane, we just don't feel right, irritable and discontent, and the program shows us how to get back on the right track if we want to, those who slip don't want to, and saying it's part of AA is irresponsible, it's part of the life of those who turn their backs on AA.
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Re: Relapse.

Postby Reborn » Mon Jun 20, 2016 5:26 pm

Then why in the Book is it written, "Try some Controlled Drinking," Even more than once? That it may be worth a Bad Case of the Jitters for true knowledge of our condition?


Here is what it actually says in the book...page 31 and 32...We do not like to pronounce any individual as alcoholic, but you can quickly diagnose yourself. Step over to the nearest barroom and try some controlled drinking. Try to drink and stop abruptly. Try it more than once. It will not take long for you to decide, if you are honest with yourself about it. It may be worth a bad case of jitters if you get a full knowledge of your condition.

They aren't talking about relapse here they are talking about getting a knowledge of our condition...granted relapse can be a part of gaining that knowledge...but once again a person who is actively drinking is not in recovery.

[/quote]I may come off harsh, but that thinking isn't going to protect you from a Relapse, but only delete any chance of another Recovery. I may never know what this "Road of Happy Destiney" may hold for me. But I know the Doors of AA are always open if I need them.[/quote]

I'm not sure if you just want to argue with me but this is most certainly not what I said. I believe what they wrote in that book..on pages 84-85...that the problem will be removed if I stay in fit spiritual condtion. My thinking doesn't protect me from relapse...my ACTIONS in AA do. Prayer..meditation..service commitments..working with other alcoholics..I build my life around AA not the other way around. Faith without works is dead.
We have recovered, and have been given the power to help others. BB pg 132
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Re: Relapse.

Postby Reborn » Mon Jun 20, 2016 5:28 pm

Thanks Brock...sorry for the double posting I didn't see it until now.
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Re: Relapse.

Postby ezdzit247 » Mon Jun 20, 2016 5:28 pm

Feeya wrote:
ezdzit247 wrote: After I sobered up, I went back to meetings, and spent the next month trying to figure out what I had done "wrong", why I drank again. The only thing I could come up with that I didn't do "right" was forget to remember that staying sober is a one day at a time deal and to not take that first drink....no matter what. When I came back to AA, I did something differently. I got on Nancy's O's 24 hour plan and since then have never taken another drink....no matter what. So far, so good.


The 24 hour plan is what I am taking to heart right now, as it seems that that was what caused my relapse too. Just forgot that I need to take it one day at a time, sometimes even one hour at a time and not pick up that first drink.
I am very lucky that I made it back to the program the immediate day after my relapse.

Thanks for sharing ezdzit!

Good twenty four hours everyone!


You got it, Feeya. One day at a time has been working for me through quite a few 24's and it will work for you too.

Keep coming back.....
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Re: Relapse.

Postby Lali » Mon Jun 20, 2016 7:53 pm

Relapse is part of recovery.


Hearing this always irks me. Relapse is not part of recovery. Relapse is the opposite of recovery. Someone will say this in a meeting and then someone repeats it, then another repeats it and so on and so on.... IMO this thinking is detrimental to the newcomer. I can see someone saying, "Well, I could have a drink. After all relapse is part of recovery. No biggie. I'll just stop after this one."

It's like saying that one could be recovering while in the midst of a relapse.
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Re: Relapse.

Postby K225 » Mon Jun 20, 2016 8:22 pm

Don't feel too bad, Feeya. It happens to the best of us. I myself relapsed recently after a short period of sobriety. I feel awful too, but just have to pick up your feet and keep on keeping on.
Best of Luck to you.
"When you're going through hell, keep going".-Winston Churchill
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Re: Relapse.

Postby D'oh » Mon Jun 20, 2016 9:22 pm

Don't feel too bad, Feeya. It happens to the best of us. I myself relapsed recently after a short period of sobriety. I feel awful too, but just have to pick up your feet and keep on keeping on.


This is what I was trying to say. A relapse is just a bump in the Road, as long as we learn something from it, and of course are able to make it back through the doors. That is the Risk of It.

"We do not Regret the past nor Wish to shut the door on it." Why is that any different the 1st or 10th time? What ever it takes to get us to this Day, this Point in Time and Sober. Not to be used as an excuse, but Today is what we have to focus on. Live today so we don't have Regrets, Remorse or Fear tomorrow.

Who am I to judge if this is the Time or not, that a Chronic Relapser is finally able to admit Complete Defeat? Am I willing to gamble that they are just getting out of the next bind and not offer the Hand of AA? Can I offer anything that might make it different this time?
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Re: Relapse.

Postby Feeya » Mon Jun 20, 2016 11:14 pm

Thanks everyone for sharing! And thanks for all the encouragement.
I look at my relapse as a bump in the road too. And I am grateful that I made it back and I am grateful that it reminded me of my priorities (not picking up that first drink and staying in the here and now).
I have a much stronger sense of what I need to do now (call my sponsor or someone in the group) in case I am ever tempted to drink and I already had occasions where I did just that. Called. And did not pick up the first drink.

It takes what it takes and maybe I needed to go there again, to realise that I am not in control and that the only important thing is to stay sober. One day at a time!
Last edited by Feeya on Mon Jun 20, 2016 11:26 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Relapse.

Postby Noels » Mon Jun 20, 2016 11:17 pm

Good morning everyone :D this is why I asked for actual literature on the subject of relapse. Although its not part of recovery or a recovered alcoholic's life it does unfortunately happen - very much so - and I wanted to see if there was actual literature on the subject from those who have gone before us which we could use to possibly approach the subject and help the person who experienced relapse in a specific format - like we approach the 12 step program. Almost unanimously completely based on literature and with our own views and opinions set aside.
I have already learned something from the literature posted by EZ - to sit in the rooms, look at the people there and just to think - I don't know any of these people and they don't know me. Here in the rooms it doesn't matter who I am or what I do. My personal beliefs is not relevant. Here in the rooms we are all just alcoholics who doesn't want to drink anymore. That gives me some sense of humbleness yet belonging which is something I have been struggling with for a very long time. Belonging.
So please guys, lets try to find some literature on this subject. Lets work together to find the solution (and here I'm NOT talking the 12 steps. Keep your minds focused on relapse). Lets find whatever we can related to relapse which can bring us together to help still suffering alcoholics so it doesn't have to happen to them again.
Have an awesome day and chat again later and thanks for all the responses. This is how we learn. By chatting to each other.
Love and light
Noels xxx
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Re: Relapse.

Postby Tosh » Tue Jun 21, 2016 12:13 am

One thing to note is that while we may focus on booze when it comes to a relapse, A.A. teaches (and I agree with) that 'bottles are a symptom'; drinking is just the manifestation of our spiritual state. A bit like a heart attack is a symptom of (possibly) poor lifestyle choices. We might focus on the heart attack, but really it's things like the lack of exercise, smoking, and bad diet that are really the problem.

In fact Dr Silkworth (author of the Doc's Opinion) wrote an essay about an analogy of a heart attack and comparing it to a relapse into drinking. Ann posted about it some years back. Wait there...

Here's the beginning of it:

Slips and Human Nature

by William Duncan Silkworth, M.D.
The mystery of slips is not so deep as it may appear. While it does seem odd that an alcoholic, who has restored himself to a dignified place among his fellowmen and continues dry for years, should suddenly throw all his happiness overboard and find himself again in mortal peril of drowning in liquor, often the reason is simple.

People are inclined to say, "there is something peculiar about alcoholics. They seem to be well, yet at any moment they may turn back to their old ways. You can never be sure."

This is largely twaddle. The alcoholic is a sick person. Under the technique of Alcoholics Anonymous he gets well - that is to say, his disease is arrested. There is nothing unpredictable about him any more than there is anything weird about a person who has arrested diabetes.

Let's get it clear, once and for all, that alcoholics are human beings. Then we can safeguard ourselves intelligently against most slips.


I can't post the link, but if you google 'Slips and Human Nature Dr Silkworth', you'll find the essay.

And five pages with no fighting; well done everyone; especially me. :oops:
Come, come, whoever you are. Wanderer, worshiper, lover of leaving. It doesn't matter. Ours is not a caravan of despair. Come, even if you have broken your vows a thousand times. Come, yet again, come, come.” Rumi (No sniggering from the sex addicts)
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Re: Relapse.

Postby Feeya » Tue Jun 21, 2016 12:31 am

Tosh wrote:And five pages with no fighting; well done everyone; especially me. :oops:

:mrgreen: wonderful!
One day at a time.
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Re: Relapse.

Postby PaigeB » Tue Jun 21, 2016 12:50 am

Tosh called it. Good self control everyone LOL

When My sponsor told me I needed to try some self control, I told her "I didn't sign on for self control!" Things change.

But, we "traditionally" close threads at 5 pages and we have arrived at that length.

Love to all!!
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