Weaning off alcohol - advice re: dosage

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Re: Weaning off alcohol - advice re: dosage

Postby Reborn » Mon Jun 06, 2016 11:23 pm

I now remembered what my alcoholic friends had told me, how they prophesied that if I had an alcoholic mind, the time and place would come - I would drink again. They had said that though I did raise a defense, it would one day give way before some trivial reason for having a drink. Well, just that did happen and more, for what I had learned of alcoholism did not occur to me at all. I knew from that moment that I had an alcoholic mind. I saw that will power and self-knowledge would not help in those strange mental blank spots. I had never been able to understand people who said that a problem had them hopelessly defeated. I knew then. It was a crushing blow. Big Book pages 41 and 42

An alcoholic will go back to the drink eventually...we may be able to stop or moderate but eventually we will hit a "strange mental blank spot" and just like that we're back on the merry go round. If you are truly alcoholic will power and self knowledge will not fix it. It sounds like you have a plan and I truly hope it works for you...but for me and millions just like me it didn't..good luck and God bless.
We have recovered, and have been given the power to help others. BB pg 132
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Re: Weaning off alcohol - advice re: dosage

Postby PaigeB » Tue Jun 07, 2016 12:56 am

anon951 wrote:This is another book I am studying at the moment: brainybetty (Moderator edit... this board does not allow unapproved links)

It is not about alcohol addiction, but it can be easily applied to anything to do with overcoming challenges that require willpower.

I am sorry to edit your post, but it is a Forum Guideline that any links must be pre-approved. viewtopic.php?f=10&t=8

Any person who wishes to have the exact link can send you a private message through this board and you can give the link there!
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Re: Weaning off alcohol - advice re: dosage

Postby Brock » Tue Jun 07, 2016 5:08 am

I have to admit that I am only about 15 pages into so far.

I found the book pretty tough reading, it's not like a novel it's more a reference book, and it grows on you. The chapters 'The Doctors Opinion & More About Alcoholism' are good starts. I came across this also written by Bill Wilson, it shows how we accept those who don't believe in conventional concepts.
As Bill sees it p.158
“We found that the principles of tolerance and love had to be emphasized in actual practice. We can never say (or insinuate) to anyone that he must agree to our formula or be excommunicated. The atheist may stand up in an A.A. meeting still denying the Deity, yet reporting how vastly he has been changed in attitude and outlook. Much experience tells us he will presently change his mind about God, but nobody tells him he must do so.
“In order to carry the principles of inclusiveness and tolerance still further, we make no religious requirement of anyone. All people having an alcoholic problem who wish to get rid of it and so make a happy adjustment with the circumstances of their lives, become A.A. members by simply associating with us. Nothing but sincerity is needed. But we do not demand even this.
“In such an atmosphere the orthodox, the unorthodox, and the believer mix happily and usefully together. An opportunity for spiritual growth is open to all.”
Letter, 1940
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Re: Weaning off alcohol - advice re: dosage

Postby Larryp713 » Tue Jun 07, 2016 6:59 am

I think anybody who is significantly suffering from physical withdrawal from alcohol should strongly consider an inpatient detox and treatment program of at least a couple weeks. Without that separation from alcohol, I think a lot of people are not able to stay sober long enough to start the work. I am observing it in my home group right now.
It talks about that in the big book - the need for many of us to seek medical attention. One thing a treatment facility can provide is physical separation. Good luck - Larry
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Re: Weaning off alcohol - advice re: dosage

Postby Stepchild » Tue Jun 07, 2016 9:01 am

One thing a treatment facility can provide is physical separation.


As well as anti seizure medication. People die playing around with this stuff. That's fact. I don't recommend it for anyone.

I look at the reason I came to AA as nothing more than everything else I tried failed. I came to the conclusion that as the book tells me...

Many of us felt that we had plenty of character. There was a tremendous urge to cease forever. Yet we found it impossible. This is the baffling feature of alcoholism as we know it - this utter inability to leave it alone, no matter how great the necessity or the wish.
pg 34

I was trying....The impossible.

If you can do this your way and it works...That's awesome. If you're new and reading along....And you've already been down this road too many times and you're getting tired of it....It's nice to know that AA is there.
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Re: Weaning off alcohol - advice re: dosage

Postby Spirit Flower » Tue Jun 07, 2016 9:56 am

Stepchild, that is right.
AA is the last house on the block.
We tried everything else.
No we are not weak. We are alcoholics.
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Re: Weaning off alcohol - advice re: dosage

Postby anon951 » Sat Jun 11, 2016 4:53 am

Update: Plan going well, down to 1 can a day. No withdrawal yet.
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Re: Weaning off alcohol - advice re: dosage

Postby Patsy© » Sat Jun 11, 2016 6:36 am

anon951 wrote:Update: Plan going well, down to 1 can a day. No withdrawal yet.


Hi Anon,

I know for myself, that I tried to cut down all the time, and in fact, at times I went weeks without a drink, only to congratulate myself on my new found sobriety....by having a drink and then another and another and another. This illness centers in the mind. I had an obsession of the mind (a thought that overcomes all other thoughts) that insured that I would take the first drink. Once I put one drink of alcohol into my body, it set up a physical compulsion for MORE, and I would continue to drink against my will, until I was drunk, sick and out of control again.

Perhaps you are not alcoholic after all, the only one who can say if you are alcoholic or not, is You .... Best of Luck.


What page in the Big Book are you on, I know you said that you have read to page 15?


Page 30 and 31 in the Big Book:

"We alcoholics are men and women who have lost the ability to control our drinking. We know that no real alcoholic ever recovers control. All of us felt at times that we were regaining control, but such intervals - usually brief - were inevitably followed by still less control, which led in time to pitiful and incomprehensible demoralization. We are convinced to a man that alcoholics of our type are in the grip of a progressive illness. Over any considerable period we get worse, never better.

We are like men who have lost their legs; they never grow new ones. Neither does there appear to be any kind of treatment which will make alcoholics of our kind like other men. We have tried every imaginable remedy. In some instances there has been brief recovery, followed always by a still worse relapse. Physicians who are familiar with alcoholism agree there is no such thing as making a normal drinker out of an alcoholic. Science may one day accomplish this, but it hasn't done so yet.

Despite all we can say, many who are real alcoholics are not going to believe they are in that class. By every form of self-deception and experimentation, they will try to prove themselves exceptions to the rule, therefore nonalcoholic. If anyone who is showing inability to control his drinking can do the right- about-face and drink like a gentleman, our hats are off to him. Heaven knows, we have tried hard enough and long enough to drink like other people!

Here are some of the methods we have tried: Drinking beer only, limiting the number of drinks, never drinking alone, never drinking in the morning, drinking only at home, never having it in the house, never drinking during business hours, drinking only at parties, switching from scotch to brandy, drinking only natural wines, agreeing to resign if ever drunk on the job, taking a trip, not taking a trip, swearing off forever (with and without a solemn oath), taking more physical exercise, reading inspirational books, going to health farms and sanitariums, accepting voluntary commitment to asylums - we could increase the list ad infinitum."
Failed 12 Step Call? Not if we walk away sober!
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Re: Weaning off alcohol - advice re: dosage

Postby anon951 » Fri Jul 01, 2016 9:22 pm

Hi Everyone,
Just posting an update.

Since the last time I posted I feel that I have gotten better. I've decreased my dosage to a point where I no longer feel the effects, this is good because soon I will be able to stop drinking* soon as I know the side-effect won't kick in. Withdrawal is my main fear, staying sober or controlling my drinking is not an issue.

*I'm really not sure if this is appropriate to post here so please feel free to edit this out: my actual goal is not to completely stop drinking. I do like to have a beer with a friend, I just want to stop drinking for no reason. I've come to a conclusion that I am NOT an alcoholic. I do not have an inherent NEED to drink, I simply do it because I have nothing else to do. And lately I've had a lot to do, I intend to keep it this way. Focusing on other things in life really helps me realize just how worthless this whole drinking-for-the-sake-of-drinking this is. I don't need AA, I don't need help, I don't need advice and I certainly don't need people to tell me how I will fail without AA. Like I said, it is important for me to do this on my own. And so far I'm doing well, so I take the credit for it. I'm posting this here because I want you to realize - whatever you think you want to do, only YOU have the power to stop YOU. Only YOU can make yourself better. Since I am not endorsing the AA program I kinda expect this post to be deleted (sorry, that's just the impression I got), but I will appreciate if it helps anyone.

TLDR; no one will be able help you unless you force yourself to make a change.
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Re: Weaning off alcohol - advice re: dosage

Postby Noels » Sat Jul 02, 2016 12:26 am

Good morning Anon :D well, what can I say but well done and good luck. If you're not an alcoholic then the test was worth it -for you and then you will be successful in controlling your drinking.
If you are alcoholic you will probably end up like me by saying F* this three or four months down the line and be back to finishing the bottle and making sure there's always a backup bottle for incase the first one wasn't enough.
If this happens we at AA will still be here to welcome you and show you the way.
I agree that the decision is ours to make. I decided to stop drinking. The only difference between your belief and my belief is that I believe that I made the decision to stop drinking BUT a power greater than me KEEPS me sober.
Anyways, I wish you only the best in this endeavour. You're quite right - since you are so powerful you don't need God. What can God do for you that you can't do for yourself? Clearly nothing. :D
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Re: Weaning off alcohol - advice re: dosage

Postby Brock » Sat Jul 02, 2016 4:24 am

I've come to a conclusion that I am NOT an alcoholic... I don't need AA

This is fine, our literature is very clear on this matter, in quite a few sections our main text speaks about 'heavy drinkers,' and the fact that they can stop or moderate on their own given a good reason to do so, in one section it even suggests we do this as a test if we are not sure -
We do not like to pronounce any individual as alcoholic, but you can quickly diagnose yourself, step over to the nearest barroom and try some controlled drinking. Try to drink and stop abruptly. Try it more than once. It will not take long for you to decide, if you are honest with yourself about it. It may be worth a bad case of jitters if you get a full knowledge of your condition.

It seems to me you have passed the test with flying colors, so we wish you the best. AA is not some organization going around trying to convince drinkers they need us, quite the opposite, but if you or anyone else find they can't stop on their own, then we are happy to assist.
"Good morning, this is your Higher Power speaking. I will not be needing your help today."
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Re: Weaning off alcohol - advice re: dosage

Postby Layne » Sat Jul 02, 2016 8:52 am

anon951 wrote:Since the last time I posted I feel that I have gotten better. I've decreased my dosage to a point where I no longer feel the effects, this is good because soon I will be able to stop drinking* soon as I know the side-effect won't kick in. Withdrawal is my main fear, staying sober or controlling my drinking is not an issue.

*I'm really not sure if this is appropriate to post here so please feel free to edit this out: my actual goal is not to completely stop drinking. I do like to have a beer with a friend, I just want to stop drinking for no reason. I've come to a conclusion that I am NOT an alcoholic. I do not have an inherent NEED to drink, I simply do it because I have nothing else to do. And lately I've had a lot to do, I intend to keep it this way. Focusing on other things in life really helps me realize just how worthless this whole drinking-for-the-sake-of-drinking this is. I don't need AA, I don't need help, I don't need advice and I certainly don't need people to tell me how I will fail without AA. Like I said, it is important for me to do this on my own. And so far I'm doing well, so I take the credit for it. I'm posting this here because I want you to realize - whatever you think you want to do, only YOU have the power to stop YOU. Only YOU can make yourself better. Since I am not endorsing the AA program I kinda expect this post to be deleted (sorry, that's just the impression I got), but I will appreciate if it helps anyone.

TLDR; no one will be able help you unless you force yourself to make a change.

TLDR is definitely a big part of my story. Actually a lot of your post resonates with my own story and so thanks for the post and update. Reading it certainly didn't harm me nor threaten my choices made up to this point, quite the contrary, so I am grateful for your post and do find it beneficial.
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Re: Weaning off alcohol - advice re: dosage

Postby Feeya » Sat Jul 02, 2016 9:32 am

anon951 wrote:Hi Everyone,
Just posting an update.

Since the last time I posted I feel that I have gotten better. I've decreased my dosage to a point where I no longer feel the effects, this is good because soon I will be able to stop drinking* soon as I know the side-effect won't kick in. Withdrawal is my main fear, staying sober or controlling my drinking is not an issue.

*I'm really not sure if this is appropriate to post here so please feel free to edit this out: my actual goal is not to completely stop drinking. I do like to have a beer with a friend, I just want to stop drinking for no reason. I've come to a conclusion that I am NOT an alcoholic. I do not have an inherent NEED to drink, I simply do it because I have nothing else to do. And lately I've had a lot to do, I intend to keep it this way. Focusing on other things in life really helps me realize just how worthless this whole drinking-for-the-sake-of-drinking this is. I don't need AA, I don't need help, I don't need advice and I certainly don't need people to tell me how I will fail without AA. Like I said, it is important for me to do this on my own. And so far I'm doing well, so I take the credit for it. I'm posting this here because I want you to realize - whatever you think you want to do, only YOU have the power to stop YOU. Only YOU can make yourself better. Since I am not endorsing the AA program I kinda expect this post to be deleted (sorry, that's just the impression I got), but I will appreciate if it helps anyone.

TLDR; no one will be able help you unless you force yourself to make a change.


Thank you for the update anon!
As far as my sobriety goes, I credit it to my higher power, because for me, I wasn't able to stop myself alone.
I wasn't able to make myself better (whatever that means), I need AA, the advice of old timers, and the help of my higher power to stay sober! Because I am an alcoholic.
I hope your post does not get deleted, as I think it is a great reminder of why I am here and what I have been able to get out of AA so far!
I wish you the best of luck and incase you ever change your mind feel free to come back and chat!

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Re: Weaning off alcohol - advice re: dosage

Postby PaigeB » Sat Jul 02, 2016 10:39 am

Try to drink and stop abruptly.

You might be able to not drink more, but do you have the phenomena of craving? Do you feel restless, irritable and discontented?

The great obsession of every abnormal drinker is to control AND enjoy. My problem was I could have one or the other, but not both at the same time.

I am glad to hear though that you say you are not an alcoholic!! It really is a dreadful & insidious disease. So be well & enjoy. Someday you may meet another person who has need of what you have learned and I hope that you will share with them that there is Hope even if one does have this disease.

Godspeed my friend!
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Re: Weaning off alcohol - advice re: dosage

Postby ezdzit247 » Sat Jul 02, 2016 1:28 pm

anon951 wrote:.... Let me quote the rapper K-Rino:

"And churches, mosques and synagogues are nothing but buildings
You are the true house of God let it be known
So do you he think he wants to live inside an unclean home?
Heaven or hell only one can dwell your actions of proof"....


Thanks for the quote! I like it!

I read--a lot--and I've found that same message expressed by different ancient authors from different spiritual traditions using similar words to express the same idea, but never heard it from a rapper before. That's neat. The shortest, most succinct version of the message I've run across is: "The Kingdom is within." I like that too.

The co-founders of Alcoholics Anonymous, Bill W. and Dr. Bob S., emphasized the idea that the AA program had no monopoly on recovery or God in AA's Big Book, especially in Chapter 7, "Working With Others", as well as their other writings on recovery. Dr. Bob wrote about the many paths to spirituality besides AA's 12 Step program in the Akron pamphlet, "Spiritual Milestones in Alcoholics Anonymous":

"Consider the eight-part program laid down in Buddhism: Right view, right aim, right speech, right action, right living, right effort, right mindedness and right contemplation. The Buddhist philosophy, as exemplified by these eight points, could be literally adopted by AA as a substitute for or in addition to the Twelve Steps. Generosity, universal love and welfare of others rather than considerations of self are basic to Buddhism."


My ESH regarding recovery from alcoholism aka problem drinking aka alcohol abuse or whatever anyone wants to call "it" is that everyone who recognizes that their drinking has become pathological or that booze has taken over their lives and wants to do something to change that fact has to find their own path to recovery in their own way using the tools that work best for them as their own program for recovery. AA's founders gave us their spiritual tool kit for recovery from alcoholism in the BB and many alcoholics, including me, have used these tools to get sober, maintain their sobriety, as well as to learn and grow mentally, emotionally, and spiritually in recovery.

anon951 wrote:...I'm really not sure if this is appropriate to post here so please feel free to edit this out: my actual goal is not to completely stop drinking. I do like to have a beer with a friend, I just want to stop drinking for no reason. I've come to a conclusion that I am NOT an alcoholic. I do not have an inherent NEED to drink, I simply do it because I have nothing else to do. And lately I've had a lot to do, I intend to keep it this way. Focusing on other things in life really helps me realize just how worthless this whole drinking-for-the-sake-of-drinking this is. I don't need AA, I don't need help, I don't need advice and I certainly don't need people to tell me how I will fail without AA....


AA's BB doesn't say any of those things. In fact, Chapter 3, "More About Alcoholism", says quite the opposite:

"....If anyone who is showing inability to control his drinking can do the right-about- face and drink like a gentleman, our hats are off to him..."


I personally could not achieve that "right-about-face" and drink like a lady even though I tried over and over again for almost two years after my first AA meeting and failed each time I tried. If you believe you can achieve a "right-about-face" and drink like a gentleman, go for it! If your method doesn't give you the kind of results you were looking for, remember there's always more than one way to do everything, overcome anything, and AA has a way that has worked for millions of people.

Keep coming back....
“To laugh often and much; to win the respect of intelligent people and the affection of children...to leave the world a better place...to know even one life has breathed easier because you have lived. This is to have succeeded.” -- Ralph Waldo Emerson
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